Question:

Any suggestions on selecting my first bait casting rod and reel? ultimate Bass Fishing Tackle

Response:

Any suggestions on selecting my first bait casting rod and reel?

My wife and I both just got the Quantum Iron ( IR-3 )ultimate Bass Fishing Tackle baitcasters earlier this spring, and we really like them for an inexpensive ( about $55 at K-Mart, $49 at Bass Pro Shops ) reel.  We put them on Mitchell MTC-1603 medium action rods, ( about $30, I think ) and the combo has worked well for us after many trips this year.  My wife is using Berkeley Fireline, and I am using Spiderwire Braid, and both rod and reel seem to hold up to the non-mono lines pretty well.ultimate Bass Fishing Tackle  Keep a tight line! Chris http://www.cyberanswers.com/bass

Response:

Try starting out with a Quantum Pro Express. That was my first baitcasting reel. It’s not really expensive,ultimate Bass Fishing Tackle it has a 6.3 to1 gear ratio that makes it good for any type lure you want to run, it comes in lefthand retrieve, and has given me less trouble than some of my more expensive reels. As far as rods go, I’ve caught some pretty hefty fish with my medium action 6ft.

Response:

Any suggestions on selecting my first bait casting rod and reel?

The other brands/models of reels I have seen suggested are all good reels.  My personal favorite reel to recommend to beginners is the Quantum 1310-MG, which sells for around $50 – $60, depending on where you buy it.  But, the choice of reels I will leave up to you. The Quantum Pro-Express is sold only by Bass Pro Shops, but you can get essentially the same reel by buying one of the Quantum EX-### series of reels.  I prefer a 5:1 gear ratio for an all-around reel, but that’s a matter of taste also. I will offer 2 pieces of ‘reel’ advice that I think are important: 1.  Don’t buy a cheap-o reel.  Cheap reels don’t work as well as the better ones and this can make learning to use them *very* frustrating.   You don’t have to buy the most expensive reels either.  Just make sure that you spend enough to get a good reel.  Usually, that means at least $50, depending on the brand and model. 2.  Get a reel with a magnetic brake.  Centrifugal brakes are fine, and are preferred by most ‘experienced’ baitcasting fans.  But you are *not* experienced and you need a reel with a brake that can be adjusted as easily as possible.  That means a mag-brake reel (like the Quantum 1310-MG and the Quantum EX series). As for rods, you can save some money here, because a cheap rod is as easy to use as an expensive one.ultimate Bass Fishing Tackle  In fact, it may even be *more* durable than an expensive one.  The main differences are in weight, quality of materials and workmanship (more hand construction), and sensitivity.  If you are a beginner that doesn’t fish all day several times a month, most of this won’t make any difference to you. The main thing is to get a good quality, medium action rod that matches your reel well and that *feels good* to you.  If a rod feels good, you will use it a lot.  If not, you won’t.  It’s as simple as that. I recommend the Quantum Lite rods, at about $20, or the Berkley Lightning Rods or Shakespear Ugly Sticks, at about $30.  All of these are a lot of rod for the money.ultimate Bass Fishing Tackle  But, like I said, these suggestions are just to get you started.  Buy the rod that fits your budget and feels best to you. I hope this helps.  Good Luck Richard

Response:

I will offer 2 pieces of ‘reel’ advice that I think are important: 1.  Don’t buy a cheap-o reel.  Cheap reels don’t work as well as the better ones and this can make learning to use them *very* frustrating.ultimate Bass Fishing Tackle   You don’t have to buy the most expensive reels either.  Just make sure that you spend enough to get a good reel.  Usually, that means at least $50, depending on the brand and model.

Excellent advice. 2.  Get a reel with a magnetic brake.  Centrifugal brakes are fine, and are preferred by most ‘experienced’ baitcasting fans.

Yes you do realize the value of centrifugal brakes and that they are preferred.  Why would you tell some one to get something else? Especailly since you reccomend getting something a person is likely to keep for a while.  But you are *not* experienced and you need a reel with a brake that can be adjusted as easily as possible.

Why don’t you tell him/us how to adjust it?  I never learned how to adjust a magnetic brake reel and therefore I never used it.   A good starting point for adjusting a centrifugal reel is 3 weights on and 3 weights off with a 1/2oz bait like a spinnerbait.  It’s not too hard at all.   That means a mag-brake reel (like the Quantum 1310-MG and the Quantum EX series).

Of course you will have to buy a Shimano to get a reel with centrifugal brakes. Good luck, Paul – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I will offer 2 pieces of ‘reel’ advice that I think are important: 1.  Don’t buy a cheap-o reel.  Cheap reels don’t work as well as the better ones and this can make learning to use them *very* frustrating. You don’t have to buy the most expensive reels either.  Just make sure that you spend enough to get a good reel.  Usually, that means at least $50, depending on the brand and model. Excellent advice. 2.  Get a reel with a magnetic brake.  Centrifugal brakes are fine, and are preferred by most ‘experienced’ baitcasting fans. Yes you do realize the value of centrifugal brakes and that they are preferred.  Why would you tell some one to get something else? Especailly since you reccomend getting something a person is likely to keep for a while.

Centrifugal brakes are better for *some* conditions for anglers who are more practiced at using a baitcaster.  However, they are *universally* superior, and definitely not as good for beginners, IMHO. First, most centrifugal brakes are not adjustable.  That means ‘what you get is what you got’.  If the brakes on your reel are a bit over-eager (as was true on my Black Max, when I first got it), it will be hard to backlash (good for a beginner) but will not cast very far (bad for later on).  If the brakes are a bit wimpy, your reel will backlash like crazy until you learn how to use your thumb, *if* you don’t give up in frustration *before* learning to use your thumb. Even for the high-dollar reels with adjustable centrifugal brakes, they are *much* harder to adjust than magnetic brakes, since they require the partial dismantling of the reel to access.  A mag-brake reel only needs a quick twist of the dial. Magnetic brakes can be set to a high number, while the beginner is learning to cast, and lowered as the beginner gains experience.  Also, when conditions merit, like on a windy day or throwing a spinnerbait with big blades and a big skirt (high drag), you can quickly crank up the magnetic brake a few clicks to help cut down on backlashes. By the time a beginner gets expert enough to appreciate the advantages of centrifugal brakes (in certain conditions), they will have almost certainly decided to acquire additional reels, which can be centrifugal brake models.  Their old, mag-brake model will still be very useful for other conditions and they shouldn’t discard it. For example, I use centrifugal brake reels for crankbaits and worm fishing, but I *much* prefer a magnetic brake reel for spinnerbaits and buzzbaits. But you are *not* experienced and you need a reel with a brake that can be adjusted as easily as possible. Why don’t you tell him/us how to adjust it?  I never learned how to adjust a magnetic brake reel and therefore I never used it.

Once he buys a reel, *if* it is a magnetic brake reel, then we can get into instructions on how to set it for casting.  Right now, he’s just shopping, so I’m not gonna tell him how to use a reel he hasn’t bought yet.   Make sense? If anyone *has* a magnetic brake reel and wants to know how to adjust it, they can ask the question, either on this newsgroup or by E-mail, and I will be happy to oblige.  This ain’t rocket science.  d8-] A good starting point for adjusting a centrifugal reel is 3 weights on and 3 weights off with a 1/2oz bait like a spinnerbait.  It’s not too hard at all.

And what do you do with the vast majority of centrifugal brake reels that are *not* adjustable?  You’re making all kinds of assumptions about what kind of reel this guy is going to buy with your advice above.  Most centrifugal reels don’t even *have* 3 weights.  That makes it pretty darned hard, actually *impossible* for him to use your advice, unless he buys a reel (Shimano) just like yours.   That means a mag-brake reel (like the Quantum 1310-MG and the Quantum EX series). Of course you will have to buy a Shimano to get a reel with centrifugal brakes.

Bullshit.  Ambassadeur was making centrifugal brake reels before Shimano ever made a fishing reel and still makes more centrifugal brake reels than Shimano.  AFAIK, *none* of them are adjustable, unless you count changing the size of the weights or removing them altogether.  Quantum also makes more models with centrifugal brakes than Shimano does.  In fact, the only manufacturer that I know of that doesn’t make centrifugal brake (freshwater) reels is Daiwa. I work on reels as a hobby.  It doesn’t pay enough to make a living at it.  I think you need to learn more about a wider variety of reels before you start giving advice based solely on you own personal experience. Good Luck and Good Fishing! Richard

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Any suggestions on selecting my first bait casting rod and reel? The other brands/models of reels I have seen suggested are all good reels.  My personal favorite reel to recommend to beginners is the Quantum 1310-MG, which sells for around $50 – $60, depending on where you buy it.  But, the choice of reels I will leave up to you. The Quantum Pro-Express is sold only by Bass Pro Shops, but you can get essentially the same reel by buying one of the Quantum EX-### series of reels.  I prefer a 5:1 gear ratio for an all-around reel, but that’s a matter of taste also. I will offer 2 pieces of ‘reel’ advice that I think are important: 1.  Don’t buy a cheap-o reel.  Cheap reels don’t work as well as the better ones and this can make learning to use them *very* frustrating. You don’t have to buy the most expensive reels either.  Just make sure that you spend enough to get a good reel.  Usually, that means at least $50, depending on the brand and model. 2.  Get a reel with a magnetic brake.  Centrifugal brakes are fine, and are preferred by most ‘experienced’ baitcasting fans.  But you are *not* experienced and you need a reel with a brake that can be adjusted as easily as possible.  That means a mag-brake reel (like the Quantum 1310-MG and the Quantum EX series). As for rods, you can save some money here, because a cheap rod is as easy to use as an expensive one.  In fact, it may even be *more* durable than an expensive one.  The main differences are in weight, quality of materials and workmanship (more hand construction), and sensitivity.  If you are a beginner that doesn’t fish all day several times a month, most of this won’t make any difference to you. The main thing is to get a good quality, medium action rod that matches your reel well and that *feels good* to you.  If a rod feels good, you will use it a lot.  If not, you won’t.  It’s as simple as that. I recommend the Quantum Lite rods, at about $20, or the Berkley Lightning Rods or Shakespear Ugly Sticks, at about $30.  All of these are a lot of rod for the money.  But, like I said, these suggestions are just to get you started.  Buy the rod that fits your budget and feels best to you. I hope this helps.  Good Luck and Good Fishing! Richard

Mr.Caldwell    You are wise and know your subject. You are a credit to this NG    Thank You;   Crank bait

Response:

Arn and others, 2.  Get a reel with a magnetic brake.  Centrifugal brakes are fine, and are preferred by most ‘experienced’ baitcasting fans. Yes you do realize the value of centrifugal brakes and that they are preferred.  Why would you tell some one to get something else? Especailly since you reccomend getting something a person is likely to keep for a while. Centrifugal brakes are better for *some* conditions for anglers who are more practiced at using a baitcaster.  However, they are *universally* superior, and definitely not as good for beginners, IMHO.

Yes that’s what it comes down to personal experince and IMHO shimano reels w properly adjusted centrifugal brakes are far easier to learn how to use than reels w magnetic adjustment. First, most centrifugal brakes are not adjustable.  That means ‘what you get is what you got’.  If the brakes on your reel are a bit over-eager (as was true on my Black Max, when I first got it), it will be hard to backlash (good for a beginner) but will not cast very far (bad for later on).  If the brakes are a bit wimpy, your reel will backlash like crazy until you learn how to use your thumb, *if* you don’t give up in frustration *before* learning to use your thumb. Even for the high-dollar reels with adjustable centrifugal brakes, they are *much* harder to adjust than magnetic brakes, since they require the partial dismantling of the reel to access.  A mag-brake reel only needs a quick twist of the dial.

Partial dismantling boy that’s scary.  It’s probably harder to open a childproof asprin bottle.  (On a Shimano)  Changing a spool on a spinning reel is partial dismantling on that basis. Magnetic brakes can be set to a high number, while the beginner is learning to cast, and lowered as the beginner gains experience.  Also, when conditions merit, like on a windy day or throwing a spinnerbait with big blades and a big skirt (high drag), you can quickly crank up the magnetic brake a few clicks to help cut down on backlashes. By the time a beginner gets expert enough to appreciate the advantages of centrifugal brakes (in certain conditions), they will have almost certainly decided to acquire additional reels, which can be centrifugal brake models.  Their old, mag-brake model will still be very useful for other conditions and they shouldn’t discard it.

Planned obsolesence.  My magnetic reel has been gathering dust  since I got the curado. For example, I use centrifugal brake reels for crankbaits and worm fishing, but I *much* prefer a magnetic brake reel for spinnerbaits and buzzbaits. But you are *not* experienced and you need a reel with a brake that can be adjusted as easily as possible.

How come you write this guy and all first time baitcasters off?   Once he buys a reel, *if* it is a magnetic brake reel, then we can get into instructions on how to set it for casting.  Right now, he’s just shopping, so I’m not gonna tell him how to use a reel he hasn’t bought yet.   Make sense?

The purpose of posting the instructions was to make the point that it’s not all that hard to adjust. And what do you do with the vast majority of centrifugal brake reels that are *not* adjustable?

Don’t buy them that’s for sure.  You’re making all kinds of assumptions about what kind of reel this guy is going to buy with your advice above.  Most centrifugal reels don’t even *have* 3 weights.  That makes it pretty darned hard, actually *impossible* for him to use your advice, unless he buys a reel (Shimano) just like yours.

Shimano has at least 2 models w ajustatable cent brakes.  Richard could probably tell us exactly how many since he works on reels as a hobby. Of course you will have to buy a Shimano to get a reel with centrifugal brakes. Bullshit.  Ambassadeur was making centrifugal brake reels before Shimano ever made a fishing reel and still makes more centrifugal brake reels than Shimano.  AFAIK, *none* of them are adjustable, unless you count changing the size of the weights or removing them altogether.

Come on Richard… are you now debating whether they are adjustable or not????   Quantum also makes more models with centrifugal brakes than Shimano does.  In fact, the only manufacturer that I know of that doesn’t make centrifugal brake (freshwater) reels is Daiwa. I work on reels as a hobby.  It doesn’t pay enough to make a living at it.  I think you need to learn more about a wider variety of reels before you start giving advice based solely on you own personal experience.

Don’t have to know about a variety to pick one that works well for beginners and experts alike.  That’s why Arn posted to get peoples personal experinces.    I guess if you don’t think I’m qualified to give advice that’s your problem.  The name of the group is r.o.f.b. not r.o.f.b.reelrepairers.   I know that if Arn or anyone else takes my advice they will have invested in hardware that they can easily learn on now and will still be using many,many years from now.  That’s my idea of what value is. While we are all interested in seeing Arn and others buy, use, and enjoy a baitcaster I feel that a Shimano reel w properly adjusted centrifugal brakes is just as easy and probably easier to use than most baitcasting reels,IMHO.  Not everyone can fish or work on every single reel offered for sale.  So take each piece of advice for what you think it’s worth.  I know I tried to use a top quality Shimano mag brake reel off and on for years without any appreciable improvement in casting, but with the centrifugal brakes properly adjusted in a Curado I improved dramatically.  I have been w others that could barely cast spinning tackle use my baitcasters and be fairly proficient in less than 2 hours.   I don’t see the point in buying a reel w mag brakes if you know the reels w adjustable cent. brakes are preferred and *univesally * superior as Richard states above. What does it take to become an experinced baitcaster about 10 hours? 20 hours?  That’s 3 or 4 times out for me at the most,speaking from personal experince. Here is another’s guys recent personal experince-check it out at: http://www.wmi.org/bassfish/bassboard/rods_reels/965.htm Watch this page the theme of 965 is repeated almost weekly. Take care all. Paul

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<argumentative diatribe deleted Since we’re just offering our opinions here, I thought I’d give mine. Unlike Paul, who spent several years using a magnetic-braked baitcaster before buying a Curado, some people have *no* experience with baitcasters and would like to try one to see if they would like one. If I understood him right, one should shell out between $100 and $130 to see if they like a Curado baitcaster.  I’m not sure everyone on this board can afford that luxury.  By the way, I have a Curado and love it, but with its 6.2:1 retrieve ratio, it’s not ideal for all applications and I often use other lower ratio reels. I’m also not fond of pulling off the sideplate of the Curado in the boat and in the wind to increase my centrifugal setting.  I’ve been known to drop things in the bottom of the boat or over the side. Also, your recommendation of three weights ‘on’ for initial setup might not be correct depending on whether their reel comes with red, green or blue weights.  Throwing a light lure into the wind with three red weights ‘on’ will give you the Granddaddy of all backlashes! So my opinion is that the Curado truly is a *great* reel.  But not one I’d recommend to first time beginners or someone who has to take a second mortgage to get one. So unless you’ve had some previous experience with baicasters or can afford to shell out over $100 to experiment, I think Richard’s advice was right on the money.  We’re email buddies, probably because we tend to think alike.  ;-) Good Fishin’ Stan G. Stan G.

Response:

Well, thanks to everyone for the great advice. I settled on a Quantum Iron (IR3) reel and a Berkley Performa IM6 rod. Now, the box says that it has a centrifugal brake system, so I guess that is what it has.  Its also adjustable (there is a knob there anyway). I paid $48 for the reel and $44 for the rod at Wal-Mart. Thanks again, this newsgroup is very valuable.

Arn, The adjustable knob is the friction control (brake) which helps slow the spool at the end of the cast while the centrifugal brakes are most effective at the beginning two thirds of the cast.   To set the friction control, put on the weight or lure you’re going to use and tighten down the friction knob until the weight or lure barely descends to the ground when the spool is released.  You have to reset this control every time you change weights.  BTW, I think it’s a good idea to store the reel with the friction controls and star drag loosened (no tension).   Remember, there’s no such thing as a baitcasting reel whose brakes alone will keep you from getting a backlash.  When you see that lure begin its descent, start applying light but increasing pressure with your thumb on the spool.  Every cast should be terminated with ‘educated’ thumb pressure. Have fun…you’ll enjoy your reel. Stan G.

Response:

Well, thanks to everyone for the great advice. I settled on a Quantum Iron (IR3) reel and a Berkley Performa IM6 rod. Now, the box says that it has a centrifugal brake system, so I guess that is what it has.  Its also adjustable (there is a knob there anyway). I paid $48 for the reel and $44 for the rod at Wal-Mart. Thanks again, this newsgroup is very valuable.

Response:

In Article Re: Beginning Baitcasting Rig , Crank Bait   Mr.Caldwell    You are wise and know your subject. You are a credit to this NG    Thank You;   Crank bait

Thank you for the kind words.  I’m almost embarassed.  d8-] Good Luck and Good Fishing! Richard

Response:

: Well, thanks to everyone for the great advice. : I settled on a Quantum Iron (IR3) reel and a Berkley Performa IM6 rod. Thats kind of a heavy reel, but I hope you like and enjoy it…

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Arn and others, 2.  Get a reel with a magnetic brake.  Centrifugal brakes are fine, and are preferred by most ‘experienced’ baitcasting fans. Yes you do realize the value of centrifugal brakes and that they are preferred.  Why would you tell some one to get something else? Especailly since you reccomend getting something a person is likely to keep for a while. Centrifugal brakes are better for *some* conditions for anglers who are more practiced at using a baitcaster.  However, they are *universally* superior, and definitely not as good for beginners, IMHO.

Sorry, that should have read, “they are *not* universally superior”. Yes that’s what it comes down to personal experince and IMHO shimano reels w properly adjusted centrifugal brakes are far easier to learn how to use than reels w magnetic adjustment.

I agree that the Shimanos are nice reels.  If this guy has the $90 it takes to get a Citica (the cheapest of the models you refer to) and wants to spend that much on his first baitcaster, I’m sure he will not be disappointed.  However, if he doesn’t want to spend that much money (as most beginners don’t), then he’s better off with a mag brake reel. First, most centrifugal brakes are not adjustable.  That means ‘what you get is what you got’.  If the brakes on your reel are a bit over-eager (as was true on my Black Max, when I first got it), it will be hard to backlash (good for a beginner) but will not cast very far (bad for later on).  If the brakes are a bit wimpy, your reel will backlash like crazy until you learn how to use your thumb, *if* you don’t give up in frustration *before* learning to use your thumb. Even for the high-dollar reels with adjustable centrifugal brakes, they are *much* harder to adjust than magnetic brakes, since they require the partial dismantling of the reel to access.  A mag-brake reel only needs a quick twist of the dial. Partial dismantling boy that’s scary.  It’s probably harder to open a childproof asprin bottle.  (On a Shimano)  Changing a spool on a spinning reel is partial dismantling on that basis.

No, you don’t have to take any other parts off a spinning reel to remove the spool, you just remove the spool.  On front-drag models, you have to put the cap in your pocket.  On the low-profile Shimano reels, you have a handy little cap that covers the spool and is just as easy as a spinning reel, I agree.  But that is not true for the Calcuttas or for all those other reels with adjustable centrifugal brakes.  On those reels, you have to remove the entire side, gear housing, crank and all and find some place to park it while you fiddle with the weights. You seem to be talking like Shimanos are the only centrifugal brake reels made, or at least the only ones in question.  Noone else has recommended Shimanos specifically, and you did not preface your criticism of my advice with a recommendation for Shimanos.  So, your assumption that centrifugal-brake = Shimano Citica/Curado/Chronarch is false. Magnetic brakes can be set to a high number, while the beginner is learning to cast, and lowered as the beginner gains experience.  Also, when conditions merit, like on a windy day or throwing a spinnerbait with big blades and a big skirt (high drag), you can quickly crank up the magnetic brake a few clicks to help cut down on backlashes. By the time a beginner gets expert enough to appreciate the advantages of centrifugal brakes (in certain conditions), they will have almost certainly decided to acquire additional reels, which can be centrifugal brake models.  Their old, mag-brake model will still be very useful for other conditions and they shouldn’t discard it. Planned obsolesence.  My magnetic reel has been gathering dust  since I got the curado.

So your whole point is that you bought a Curado and you like it.  So what.  Do you only use one rod & reel when you go bass fishing?  That sounds like my teenage daughter.  She catches everything on her Zebco 33 combo.  The only difference between you and her is the extra $80 you paid for your Curado.  d8-] For example, I use centrifugal brake reels for crankbaits and worm fishing, but I *much* prefer a magnetic brake reel for spinnerbaits and buzzbaits. But you are *not* experienced and you need a reel with a brake that can be adjusted as easily as possible. How come you write this guy and all first time baitcasters off?

I don’t.  I give them the best, and most generic advice I can, without too much favoritism toward any particular brand or model.  The only advice you seem to have is, “buy a Curado”.  As such, it’s good advice, if he has the money.  The Curado is a fine reel.  But, it is *not* the only good reel on the market.  I recently sold a Calcutta 200 to a friend who swore by his Citica and Curado.  Now, the Citica and Curado “gather dust” on the deck of his boat while he uses the Calcutta most of the time.  It’s his newest toy.  d8-] Once he buys a reel, *if* it is a magnetic brake reel, then we can get into instructions on how to set it for casting.  Right now, he’s just shopping, so I’m not gonna tell him how to use a reel he hasn’t bought yet.   Make sense? The purpose of posting the instructions was to make the point that it’s not all that hard to adjust.

Neither type of brake is “all that hard” to adjust, once you understand the theory behind them.  However, a beginner can sometimes be confused, even bewildered by all the things on a baitcaster that need to be adjusted, especially when they are accustomed to a spin-casting reel. And what do you do with the vast majority of centrifugal brake reels that are *not* adjustable? Don’t buy them that’s for sure.

Then your advice is, *if* he buys a reel with centrifugal brakes, he should get one that’s adjustable, *if* he can afford one.  I agree wholeheartedly with that advice. You’re making all kinds of assumptions about what kind of reel this guy is going to buy with your advice above.  Most centrifugal reels don’t even *have* 3 weights.  That makes it pretty darned hard, actually *impossible* for him to use your advice, unless he buys a reel (Shimano) just like yours. Shimano has at least 2 models w ajustatable cent brakes.  Richard could probably tell us exactly how many since he works on reels as a hobby.

If you don’t count all the variations of each model name, Shimano makes the Citica, Curado, Chronarch, and Calcutta with adjustable centrifugal brakes.  These reels start at about $90 for the Citica and go up. I might also note that the reel below the Citica, the Coriolis, has magnetic brakes, as do all the lower priced Shimanos.  That tells me that Shimano sees some value in magnetic brakes for lower priced reels. Of course you will have to buy a Shimano to get a reel with centrifugal brakes. Bullshit.  Ambassadeur was making centrifugal brake reels before Shimano ever made a fishing reel and still makes more centrifugal brake reels than Shimano.  AFAIK, *none* of them are adjustable, unless you count changing the size of the weights or removing them altogether. Come on Richard… are you now debating whether they are adjustable or not????

The ABU-Garcia Ambassadeur reels are *not* adjustable, AFAIC. Quantum also makes more models with centrifugal brakes than Shimano does.  In fact, the only manufacturer that I know of that doesn’t make centrifugal brake (freshwater) reels is Daiwa. I work on reels as a hobby.  It doesn’t pay enough to make a living at it.  I think you need to learn more about a wider variety of reels before you start giving advice based solely on you own personal experience. Don’t have to know about a variety to pick one that works well for beginners and experts alike.  That’s why Arn posted to get peoples personal experinces.    I guess if you don’t think I’m qualified to give advice that’s your problem.  The name of the group is r.o.f.b. not r.o.f.b.reelrepairers.

Agreed.  But, you did not start off your post by saying.  ”I strongly recommend the Shimano Curado.  I have one and love it.”  That kind of advice, I can agree with. Instead, you simply started off by criticizing my recommendation of a reel with magnetic brakes.  It was only by reading between the lines that I figured out that you were talking about Shimano only, and not centrifugal brake reels in general. I know that if Arn or anyone else takes my advice they will have invested in hardware that they can easily learn on now and will still be using many,many years from now.  That’s my idea of what value is. While we are all interested in seeing Arn and others buy, use, and enjoy a baitcaster I feel that a Shimano reel w properly adjusted centrifugal brakes is just as easy and probably easier to use than most baitcasting reels,IMHO.  Not everyone can fish or work on every single reel offered for sale.  So take each piece of advice for what you think it’s worth.  I know I tried to use a top quality Shimano mag brake reel off and on for years without any appreciable improvement in casting, but with the centrifugal brakes properly adjusted in a Curado I improved dramatically.  I have been w others that could barely cast spinning tackle use my baitcasters and be fairly proficient in less than 2 hours.

I have no problem with your recommendation of the Curado.  Like I said, it’s a fine reel.  I owned one for a while, but I traded it up for a Calcutta (which I later sold).  If the

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article Any suggestions on selecting my first bait casting rod and reel?

Mainly I agree with the advice, but feel that $50 is probably the lower limit if you truly want to fish, and I don’t mean throwing a bobber out in the water and taking a snooze. Baitcasters seem to run slightly higher than an equal spinner. Also I don’t agree that a cheap rod is as good as a more expensive rod. But that also doesn’t mean that a more expensive rod will be as good or better that a cheaper rod. For +/- $60 St. Croix rods are available. These are probably as good as a rod gets, and I’ve been amazed that nobody seems to use these. I’ve used expensive Berkley and Fenwick rods and I can say I will never use another rod made in the Far East. Right now, besides several St. Croix rods with Spirex reels (each setup $100) I’m also using 2 Loomis GL3’s. One has a Stradic with 8lb test and the other has a Calcutta with 14lb test. And one thing the Loomis rods have that I’ve never seen equaled is (and the St. Croix’s aren’t chopper liver in this respect) HOOKSET. Particularly if you decide to go down a notch in line weight and lore weight. Sure, you can go fishing with a pool stick and some rope, but why bother.

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In Article Re: Beginning Baitcasting Rig , Sir Rogue   Mr.Caldwell   You are wise and know your subject. You are a credit to this NG   Thank You; I’ll second the sentiment (even if he doesn’t have a bassin’ expert image

Thanks for the vote of confidence, Mr. Rogue.  Of course, the rest of us can only aspire to that pinnacle of image established by yourself.  It’s hard for us lowly bank fishermen to get much of an image.  We just stand in awe as you bassin’ experts roar by in your big, bad bass-boats, and then jump back when the wake washes up over the tops of our shoes.  d8-] In fact, instead of saying “I” and “me”, I think you should start using the imperial “we” and “us”, like the big-time bass pros and NASCAR drivers do.  d8-] Richard C.

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Richard, In fact, instead of saying “I” and “me”, I think you should start using the imperial “we” and “us”, like the big-time bass pros and NASCAR drivers do.

Good point, I never would have thought of that.  I guess my only reservation is I thought I was the only one out there that was strictly into the bassin’ expert image.  I thought the rest of the bassin’ types out there were for real.  Could you be suggesting there are more than just me out there when it comes to be all image and no substance?  Damn, maybe I could be the best big-time bassin’ expert image out there.  I can see a new mega-bucks tournament coming up Getting back to the subject at hand.  My progression of baitcasters went from Iron to Calcutta to Coriolis.  If I had it all to do over again, I would have started with the Coriolis.  It would have saved me a bunch of time becoming an expert on bird’s nest.  The magnetic brakes would have allowed me to easily adjust them for varying conditions while I educated my thumb.  Once the thumb was educated, the centrifical brakes would have been easier to conquer. Richard

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Mainly I agree with the advice, but feel that $50 is probably the lower limit if you truly want to fish, and I don’t mean throwing a bobber out in the water and taking a snooze. Baitcasters seem to run slightly higher than an equal spinner. Also I don’t agree that a cheap rod is as good as a more expensive rod. But that also doesn’t mean that a more expensive rod will be as good or better that a cheaper rod. For +/- $60 St. Croix rods are available. These are probably as good as a rod gets, and I’ve been amazed that nobody seems to use these. I’ve used expensive Berkley and Fenwick rods and I can say I will never use another rod made in the Far East. Right now, besides several St. Croix rods with Spirex reels (each setup $100) I’m also using 2 Loomis GL3’s. One has a Stradic with 8lb test and the other has a Calcutta with 14lb test. And one thing the Loomis rods have that I’ve never seen equaled is (and the St. Croix’s aren’t chopper liver in this respect) HOOKSET. Particularly if you decide to go down a notch in line weight and lore weight. Sure, you can go fishing with a pool stick and some rope, but why bother.

I think this discussion has reached a mute point – the guy with the question when out and bought a rod and reel and he’s probably happy with it.  I’m sure he’ll have some fun and then get suckered into bigger and badder stuff.  At that time, he might find some of this “I know more about this stuff than you do” bantering amusing.  In the mean time, how about we drop the discussion. In the future, I think it would be real nice if all of us bassin’ expert images around here kept to the original question.  If somebody is just getting into bass fishing and he or she has a price range in mind, how about we try to give the best possible advise within that person’s constraints.  Personally, I find it somewhat nauseating to see some blow-hard in this newsgroup talking about Calcutta reels and G. Loomis rods to somebody who has $80 to spend on both.  And to insinuated that using anything less is like fishing with a pool stick and rope is truly crass.   Richard

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Any suggestions on selecting my first bait casting rod and reel?

One word…..ABU

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The Quantum Iron (IR3) does in fact have a centrifugal brake.  However, the brake is not adjustable.  The knob on the handle side of the reel adjusts the tension of the freespool.  It is not really a brake but it has an impact on how far it will cast and how easy it will backlash.  Every baitcasting reel has one as far as I know, to include the ones with magnetic brakes.  A good rule of thumb is to take the rod and reel, put the lure on it that you intend to use, then tighten the knob until the lure will not fall when you release the freespool by depressing the thumbar. Then, back off on the know untill the lure falls to the floor very slowly.   The IR3 is a good choice for an inexpensive reel.  However, expect it to become somewhat loose and noisy over time.  I now use mine for Carolina Rigs.  Gone is the day that it works well for light lures but it is still working and still catching fish after 3 years of hard fishing. Bill – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Well, thanks to everyone for the great advice. I settled on a Quantum Iron (IR3) reel and a Berkley Performa IM6 rod. Now, the box says that it has a centrifugal brake system, so I guess that is what it has.  Its also adjustable (there is a knob there anyway). I paid $48 for the reel and $44 for the rod at Wal-Mart. Thanks again, this newsgroup is very valuable.

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In Thread  Re: Beginning Baitcasting Rig ,  it was written: As far as I know they are, except for a few ‘tackle snobs’ that like to brag on their high-dollar rods & reels, but never have much to say about the big stringers of bass they catch every week.  d8-] Getting back to the subject at hand.  My progression of baitcasters went from Iron to Calcutta to Coriolis.

That’s a rather strange progression.  Most Shimano fans start out with the Coriolis and move *up* to the Citica, Curado, Calcutta, or Chronarch. You dropped back from a Calcutta to a Coriolis.  Veeeeery interesting. If I had it all to do over again, I would have started with the Coriolis.  It would have saved me a bunch of time becoming an expert on bird’s nest.  The magnetic brakes would have allowed me to easily adjust them for varying conditions while I educated my thumb.  Once the thumb was educated, the centrifical brakes would have been easier to conquer.

That’s exactly my point about a mag-brake reel being a good reel for a beginner.  You can use the mag-brake to ‘dampen’ down the spool when you’re first learning to use it, and then lighten up the brake as your expert ability improves to match your expert image 8-].  Centrifugal brakes, even with all 6 set on, don’t do as good a job of damping the spool as a good magnetic brake, and they are not easy enough to adjust so that you can change the setting before every cast, if you want to. Richard C. I found that when trying to learn a new skill, the fewer the variables, the better off I am. The settings for the mag-brake reels were too vague for me. With only one of four (balanced) settings to worry about, it was pretty easy, when beginning, to click in all six centrifugal weights and leave ‘em alone. Likewise, I used one heavy lure only until I started to get the hang of it. I bought a whole spool of cheap 14 lb line and would just cut it out and respool when a birds nest wasn’t real easy to get out. I was determined to learn to cast, not de-nest. Since my learning pond was the side yard, the line turned kinda grass-green after a while anyway. All that was left as variables were the friction brake and the training of the thumb. Since I checked the friction brake after every three casts or so the thumb got trained pretty fast, for me. After getting one setup down, I started changing lures. With that exper., it was easier to see what differences the settings of the centrifugal brake would do. My last need was for a left-hand-crank reel. One less variable since the spinning reels I’ve owned were…. Having already owned a Shimano spinning reel, I was impressed with quality of their products, so I went straight out and got a Curado. I’m by NO means well off but learned a long time ago that you don’t buy tools or toys unless you can afford either the mid-to-upper limits of either price or frustration. From my limited newbie view, there seemed to be about five classes of reels, not counting statosphere stuff in about 25 dollar clicks. When a newbie comes to the newsgroups with a “What should I buy?, question that is wide open on price, those of us that bought above a 50 dollar reel are free to offer an opinion that we believed saved us some frustration, hoping the newbie won’t go belly up with something so cheap or vaguely controlled that he has a lot of trouble with it. Maybe all your pro thumbs were easy to train or you’ve been doing it for so long, you don’t remember just how hard it might have been to learn a new skill. In the Shimano case, I still think it is easier to deal with 4 known settings rather than 10 *kinda* settings that you can get on a mag-braked reel. If you really need to fool around with the new toy, you can always start changing the brake pads to different weights. As far as adjusting the little brake pads w/o dropping the cover into the lake, use the pointy end of the cover to snap the pads on/off instead of setting it down somewhere. Once you have an Image, you won’t ever have any of the pads engaged anyway unless you cast into 50 MPH winds anyway, right? Did I blow my fishing budget for more than a year? Yup, but I got what was right for me. Canyonsales got what he thought was right for him, too. I REALLY doubt he was being an “equipment snob”, and I KNOW I wasn’t. We were just giving opinions on what worked for us. Instead of attacking someone elses opinion of a new toy, perhaps the question, “How much ya wanna spend?”, should be asked of the newbie? I was so happy with my learning curve, that my “old” Curado now has a new brother. Dualing Curados! Yes, I would recommend one to a newbie in a second. If my thumb can be trained that fast, WITHOUT frustration, anyones can be! I’ve tried friends reels several times that had magnetic brakes. I’ll keep the centrifugal braked reels, thanks. See, another opinion…… Bill Yes, I still always have at least two of the red brake pads on all the time. I’m not ready for the pros…….

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Question:

Help..Bass Tracker pro team. Who makes the better aluminum bass boat? Additional comments welcome. Thanks, Scott

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If you are specifically looking for a Bass boat, you will be very satisfied with the Ranger Cherokee.Bass Tracker pro team A little pricey, but the best aluminum out there. Help… Who makes the better aluminum bass boat? Additional comments welcome. Thanks, Scott

– Bob Symonds,  Secretary, FOCAS Ministries Central Conn. Chapter (King’s Kid’s BassMasters) Home Page-  http://nw3.nai.net/~kingskid/ “No matter how much you wish and worry, Your past will never get any better!!!”

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writes: Who makes the better aluminum bass boat?

Scott,Bass Tracker pro teamBass Tracker pro team It really depends on your desires and the type of water you will be fishing. I own a couple of aluminum boats: a 1969 Monark 14′ and a 1992 Tracker TX 17. Both are great boats depending on how you want to use them. One quality that I look for in a boat is stability. To get this you will need to find a boat with either a thick hull material (which will add weight to the boat) or braces across the width of the boat. The Monark boat I have is made of .070 hull material which makes it very strong and stable, but very heavy for such a small boat. My Tracker is made of much thinner hull material, but has many cross braces and decks which help provide stability. Another thing I like in a boat is a built-in livewell. My Monark does not have one, so I have to carry a 48 quart cooler with me and keep fresh water in it.Bass Tracker pro team It makes for a little trouble and a lot of inconvenience while you are trying to fish. Another thing I really like is a foot controlled trolling motor. Again, my Monark does not have this. I might put one on it in a year or so, but if I bought a boat to replace it I would demand a foot controlled trolling motor. The convenience it provides while fishing is wonderful, especially in windy conditions. My Monark is a jonboat… it does not have raised decks, electric start motor, or good electronics. These are all desirable if you are wanting a bigger boat for major lakes or rivers. As for name brands, I have fished from Tracker, Monark, Lowe, and Alumicraft.Bass Tracker pro team My favorite hull is the Monark because it is so heavy and stable. As for the packages that come with the boats, Lowe offers good packages on their boats. Tracker is OK, but things like power tilt and trim will cost you extra… they are standard on the Lowe’s with a 40 HP or bigger motor. One other piece of advise… be sure you get a big enough outboard. My Tracker has a 40 HP motor, and it will run about 25 MPH empty. I got to use a Tracker (18′) with a 75 HP this summer, and it was wonderful. The motor had plenty of power to plane the boat and still run at about 50 MPH. You might not want to run this fast, but having enough motor and running it slower is better for the motor than running it wide open all the time. Hope this helps. Good

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Mr. Gattis had some good advice in his post. I own a 17ft. Grumman (I think they are the same as a Lowe) and we really love it. One feature that helps is the width of the boat, with a 74″ beam. This gives a good sized casting deck fore and aft. I have a foot-controlled trolling motor which I also couldn’t live without. 50 HP Johnson comes out of the hole quickly. I find the auto trim/tilt to not be as useful in this aluminum boat, as it is so light in the bow. If I am weighted in the bow – such as with camping gear – then I can plane it out better. Otherwise, I tend to keep the motor down when running to avoid high bow and porpoising. I suggest you try to find a boat with a good sized beam. The extra width adds stability, and also adds so much more room it is amazing. With three dogs fishing with us, the extra room is a great feature.

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Help… Who makes the better aluminum bass boat?

Have had a Sea Nymph, friends with Bass Tracker, Fisher, Ranger, Alumaweld, Lowe, and Alumacraft. For the money, I think the Alumacraft is the best equiped and best aluminum bass boat available. Look at the “Bandit” model. If it’s too much, the next size down is a good all around boat. If money is no object, check out the Fisher. Great boat but definately more $$. Forget the Bass Tracker. Every one I’ve seen has trouble with leaks and cracks after 2 years.

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Xpress, made by AlumaWeld .  I have and 18′-3″  tournament ready rigged with a 115 oil-injected Yamaha.  Best all-round boat I have ever owned.  I fish two national women’s circuits with this boat.  It takes rough water real well, is going on gasoline, oil and is a very safe boat. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Help… Who makes the better aluminum bass boat? Additional comments welcome. Thanks, Scott

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| | | Help… | | Who makes the better aluminum bass boat? | |Have had a Sea Nymph, friends with Bass Tracker, Fisher, Ranger, Alumaweld, |Lowe, and Alumacraft. For the money, I think the Alumacraft is the best |equiped and best aluminum bass boat available. Look at the “Bandit” model. |If it’s too much, the next size down is a good all around boat. If money is |no object, check out the Fisher. Great boat but definately more $$. Forget |the Bass Tracker. Every one I’ve seen has trouble with leaks and cracks |after 2 years. Have owned three trackers (so I do like the boats), but all did develop leaks, although minor around the rivets.   I found that an automatic bilge pump that would cycle on about every four hours of fishing or so, gave me peace of mind….. Tony Elrod 770.569.9486 770.663-4064 (fax) http://www.flash.net/~telrod/

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I’ve been running a Monark 16′ since 1981. It has a  .72 guage aluminum hull and after all the use and sometimes even abuse in both fresh and salt water it is still water tight. BE SURE TO GET A BOAT THAT IS SUITED FOR THE WATER YOU PLAN TO FISH!!!! . I fish mostly in the La. swamps and marshes – thus have a shalow draft with little freeboard. The boat is powered by a 40HP Johnson and runs about 28 – 32 MPH. There may well be better boats out there, but I am well pleased with this one.

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – | | | Help… | | Who makes the better aluminum bass boat? | |Have had a Sea Nymph, friends with Bass Tracker, Fisher, Ranger, Alumaweld, |Lowe, and Alumacraft. For the money, I think the Alumacraft is the best |equiped and best aluminum bass boat available. Look at the “Bandit” model. |If it’s too much, the next size down is a good all around boat. If money is |no object, check out the Fisher. Great boat but definately more $$. Forget |the Bass Tracker. Every one I’ve seen has trouble with leaks and cracks |after 2 years. Have owned three trackers (so I do like the boats), but all did develop leaks, although minor around the rivets.   I found that an automatic bilge pump that would cycle on about every four hours of fishing or so, gave me peace of mind…..

Funny, I’ve owned a Tracker Pro17 for 7 years now, and can’t find a leak on it. Should I write the company and ask them why I didn’t recieve any leaks with my boat, I feel cheated.

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Funny, I’ve owned a Tracker Pro17 for 7 years now, and can’t find a leak on it. Should I write the company and ask them why I didn’t recieve any leaks with my boat, I feel cheated.

Did you buy your boat at sale price.Sometimes sale prices don’t include all the options

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Help… Who makes the better aluminum bass boat? Have had a Sea Nymph, friends with Bass Tracker, Fisher, Ranger, Alumaweld, Lowe, and Alumacraft. For the money, I think the Alumacraft is the best equiped and best aluminum bass boat available. Look at the “Bandit” model. If it’s too much, the next size down is a good all around boat. If money is no object, check out the Fisher. Great boat but definately more $$. Forget the Bass Tracker. Every one I’ve seen has trouble with leaks and cracks after 2 years.

I owned a BassTracker for 4 years, not the same one mind you. During that four years the boat was replaced 3 times due to popped rivots and broken welds. I must say that Tracker does have a great warranty though. Each boat had the same problem of popping rivots in the same place (passenger side, where front of bench seats meet the side and on the bow where side and bottom were welded together). Was afraid the last boat would break too so traded the 4th boat in on a 17′6″ Fiberglass Stratos. That was the best move I could have made!!      Would suggest any other boat that is welded and wish them better luck than my experience. -Tom This article was posted from <A HREF=”http://www.slurp.net/”Slurp Net</A.

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Forget<BR the Bass Tracker. Every one I’ve seen has trouble with leaks and cracks<BR after 2 years.

I’ve never had a problem with this.  Anyway, isn’t the hull warranteed for six or seven years? Forsan et haec olim meminisse iuvabit.

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Xpress, made by AlumaWeld

I second this vote whole-heartedly.  Have owned an XPress 18-3 with the 115 for 3 years now and find it by far the best boat I’ve run.  Previously had Alumacraft, SeaNymph and HydraSport (glass).  The Champion and Ranger are too pricey for me, but I’ve fished many tournaments out of them.  They’re nice rigs, but don’t compare to the XPress for the way I fish.  That’s the key–how do you want to fish?

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Question:

Bob, I don’t know, I use a lot of garlic sented pork trailers..ulttmate bass fishing boat fish bass… have you ever smelled those Chopper baits? –

thought to invite a few Black Bass to the feast,ulttmate bass fishing boat fish bass but I guess they wouldn’t enjoy the garlic that much.

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I’m sure your information is correct, because I’ve read it somewhere in some magazine before. ulttmate bass fishing boat fish bass  I think the article also mentioned the fact that while southern bass grow faster and larger, their longevity suffers….plus, I think the presence of ‘gators.ulttmate bass fishing boat fish bass.. At any rate, I’d like to find a stone-age LMB.  She’d be humungous, I’ll bet!  As it is, 100% of the boats manufactured today for freshwater bass fishing have live wells too small to hold my “dream” bass!  I wouldn’t want to kill it, just weigh it on certified scales, have it verified by a bonafide fisheries biologist representing the state’s FGD or TWR agencies, photographed, and released. ulttmate bass fishing boat fish bassI don’t know Richard, I’m no Grits Gresham you know… Warren (flattered once again by Bass Rogue) Warren, Actually Richard, the oldest (confirmed through its “earstone”, technically known as its “otolith”) verified beautiful green fish (Micropterus salmoides) ever verified was a 14 year old specimen taken from northern waters (NY State).  It weighed a shade under 7 pounds.  In optimal conditions, a bass can reach 10 pounds in its first 4 years of life.  Hey, I had to go to college for something I was interested in, right? This reads like the beginning of a FAQ article.  I don’t think we have anything in the outline for this.  How about you write an article with all the scientific terms and stuff like that, and I’ll redo the table of contents and make a place for it Richard

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Warren, Only ONE jetski Richard? ulttmate bass fishing boat fish bass And I thought you were a professional…

Hey, it’s not that easy.  I have to get the non-descript Bassin’ Dreadnought over the buoy line to get at them, and I have to do it when the game warden isn’t looking :

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Warren, I don’t know Richard, I’m no Grits Gresham you know…

Okay, I’ll run the grammar checker on it when you’re doneulttmate bass fishing boat fish bass Right now the Table of Contents looks something like: Table of Contents 1)  Bass       A)  Catch and Release – tbs       B)  Types of Bass             a)  Largemouth – tbs             b)  Smallmouth – tbs             c)  Spotted – tbs             d)  Other – tbs       C)  Bass and Structure – tbs       D)  Bass and Forage – tbs       E)  Seasonal Patterns             a)  Winter – tbs             b)  Spring – tbs             c)  Summer – tbs Now, I’m thinking maybe we change it to something simpler like: 1)  Bass       B)  Catch and Release – tbs I don’t know, what do you think?  There is nothing sacred with the Table of Contents, it was just throw together to get people thinking. Richard

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I agree.  Black Bass are to be returned.  Stripers are to be eaten.  But, I prefer to soak them in salt water for at least an hour, rinse them well, smother them in butter and garlic, wrap them in tinfold and roast them on the gas grill.  I have thought to invite a few Black Bass to the feast, but I guess they wouldn’t enjoy the garlic that much. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Bob, Now that I didn’t know: stripers chomping on Black Bass.  Oddly though, the other day I caught a bass and striper (both dinks) within a hundred yards of each other.  I guess the babies will play with each other until one realizes the other could be a meal. Stripers, largemouth bass and smallmouth bass can all coexist in the same body of water and all three will survive; however, the pecking order changes when the stripers are introduced – they go to the top of the list.  The lake records for stripers out here are about 40 pounds, and a fish that size can eat a pretty good size chunk of something. Stripers and bass compete with each other over parts of the food chain.  Both fish tend to feed on shad and when a school of stripers goes to town on a school of shad, there isn’t much left over for the bass, unless the bass is a real hawg and is feeding along with the stripers. Besides thinning out the largemouth bass and smallmouth bass by chomping on them when they are small, I think the stripers also affect the size of the bass by making the bass work harder for their food.  I read somewhere that a largewmouth bass can live to about 20 years and can gain about one pound a year.  Now, if that ugly sucker has to work real hard to eat, it probably only gains about a half a ound a year and so the big hawgs disappear from a lake. So, throw the ugly suckers back and have a fish fry if you snag a striper. Richard

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Warren, Only ONE jetski Richard?  And I thought you were a professional… Hey, it’s not that easy.  I have to get the non-descript Bassin’ Dreadnought over the buoy line to get at them, and I have to do it when the game warden isn’t looking

What is the limit on jetskis, anyway? —         “Allright, I think I’ve figured it out.  It can go up         or down, but not side-to-side or backwards in time.”

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I take it the “tbs”  means nothing’s yet been written on the subject? If that’s the case, I’ll get around to doing a wintertime thing soon, I promise.  But for me to reveal what I know about spring & summer patterning would be sacriledge Richard.  Ya never know when you’re revealing to much to the folks you’re fishing against in tournaments! Warren – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Warren, I don’t know Richard, I’m no Grits Gresham you know… Okay, I’ll run the grammar checker on it when you’re done Right now the Table of Contents looks something like: Table of Contents 1)  Bass       A)  Catch and Release – tbs       B)  Types of Bass             a)  Largemouth – tbs             b)  Smallmouth – tbs             c)  Spotted – tbs             d)  Other – tbs       C)  Bass and Structure – tbs       D)  Bass and Forage – tbs       E)  Seasonal Patterns             a)  Winter – tbs             b)  Spring – tbs             c)  Summer – tbs Now, I’m thinking maybe we change it to something simpler like: 1)  Bass       B)  Catch and Release – tbs I don’t know, what do you think?  There is nothing sacred with the Table of Contents, it was just throw together to get people thinking. Richard

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writes: Does anyone have any info on the boat rental situation at Lake Castaic (California)?

For the upper lake, the big lake, I think they’re something like $24 for the first two hours and then $6 per hour.  The maximum is $66 on the weekend. (805) 257-2049. For the after bay, the little lake, I think it’s something like $7 an hour for a max of $40.  No gas motors on the lower lake. (805)295-0849. Richard

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Warren, How does the fishing compare in the two lakes Richard?  Are they seperate, or connected?  The Castaic mystique always intrigues me; I can’t even imagine hooking a bass in the 20 pound class, even having landed one over 12 & another over 11 on the same day.

The small lake is 180 acres and limited to electric boats.  It has a swimming area and a picnic area.  It is located just below the dam of the big lake.  The big lake is 2200 acreas and home of the big bad bass boats.  It has miles of steep canyon walls and bunches of impressive main lakes points.  It also has some narrow canyons off the main lake.  The small lake is stocked with family fishing fish.  The big lake is stocked with trout during the winter and that’s where the hawgs come from – chomping on the trout.  The big lake also has smallmouth which is good and stripers which is bad.  Ever since the stripers got into the lake, the 20 lb. hawgs have disappeared.  They might be there, but they are few and far between.  The stripers are the big bad guys now, and they don’t mind chomping on a bass or two if the trout aren’t around.  But even with the stripers around, there are throphies in that lake, they’re just a little harder to catch than they used to be. Richard

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That’s too bad about the stripers.  Since the big rivers here in the Northeast US have been cleaned up, those giant stripers have made a strong comeback here.  It’s reaLLy affected the bass fishing too, for the worse.  The black bass seem to orient themselves mostly away from the deep channels where the stripers lurk.  Can’t blame them… Warren – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Warren, How does the fishing compare in the two lakes Richard?  Are they seperate, or connected?  The Castaic mystique always intrigues me; I can’t even imagine hooking a bass in the 20 pound class, even having landed one over 12 & another over 11 on the same day. The small lake is 180 acres and limited to electric boats.  It has a swimming area and a picnic area.  It is located just below the dam of the big lake.  The big lake is 2200 acreas and home of the big bad bass boats.  It has miles of steep canyon walls and bunches of impressive main lakes points.  It also has some narrow canyons off the main lake.  The small lake is stocked with family fishing fish.  The big lake is stocked with trout during the winter and that’s where the hawgs come from – chomping on the trout.  The big lake also has smallmouth which is good and stripers which is bad.  Ever since the stripers got into the lake, the 20 lb. hawgs have disappeared.  They might be there, but they are few and far between.  The stripers are the big bad guys now, and they don’t mind chomping on a bass or two if the trout aren’t around.  But even with the stripers around, there are throphies in that lake, they’re just a little harder to catch than they used to be. Richard

Response:

The stripers are there because when those SoCal people stole our North Calif water, they sucked it and most of the striper fry from the San Francisco Delta.  For those who have not been West, most of the people in this state are in LA and the Southern part of the state.  They have a voracious appetite for water, worse than those Castaic U.G.’s for trout.  They built a ditch from San Francisco to LA that is 30′ deep and 300′ wide. Bill – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – That’s too bad about the stripers.  Since the big rivers here in the Northeast US have been cleaned up, those giant stripers have made a strong comeback here.  It’s reaLLy affected the bass fishing too, for the worse.  The black bass seem to orient themselves mostly away from the deep channels where the stripers lurk.  Can’t blame them… Warren Warren, How does the fishing compare in the two lakes Richard?  Are they seperate, or connected?  The Castaic mystique always intrigues me; I can’t even imagine hooking a bass in the 20 pound class, even having landed one over 12 & another over 11 on the same day. The small lake is 180 acres and limited to electric boats.  It has a swimming area and a picnic area.  It is located just below the dam of the big lake.  The big lake is 2200 acreas and home of the big bad bass boats.  It has miles of steep canyon walls and bunches of impressive main lakes points.  It also has some narrow canyons off the main lake.  The small lake is stocked with family fishing fish.  The big lake is stocked with trout during the winter and that’s where the hawgs come from – chomping on the trout.  The big lake also has smallmouth which is good and stripers which is bad.  Ever since the stripers got into the lake, the 20 lb. hawgs have disappeared.  They might be there, but they are few and far between.  The stripers are the big bad guys now, and they don’t mind chomping on a bass or two if the trout aren’t around.  But even with the stripers around, there are throphies in that lake, they’re just a little harder to catch than they used to be. Richard

Response:

Now that I didn’t know: stripers chomping on Black Bass.  Oddly though, the other day I caught a bass and striper (both dinks) within a hundred yards of each other. I guess the babies will play with each other until one realizes the other could be a meal. Nothing to do with this thread, but do you remember saying several weeks ago that the lower food supply was too abundant? Today (a chilly start at 46 degrees and got to 74 degrees by 1 p.m.), I saw something I had never seen before:  a 10 acre+ cove off the upper part of Lake Murray that was popping with minnows being chased by something, Black Bass I think.  Imagine a cove such as this with minnows jumping about every foot!  My oldest son was with me and he remarked it sounded like rain hitting the water, it was so constant. Everytime I threw something (tried about everything in my tackle box) near one of the ‘hits’,  about a dozen minnows would jump to get out of the way of my lure.  It was a weird experience. No wonder I am not getting trophies this year. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Warren, How does the fishing compare in the two lakes Richard?  Are they seperate, or connected?  The Castaic mystique always intrigues me; I can’t even imagine hooking a bass in the 20 pound class, even having landed one over 12 & another over 11 on the same day. The small lake is 180 acres and limited to electric boats.  It has a swimming area and a picnic area.  It is located just below the dam of the big lake.  The big lake is 2200 acreas and home of the big bad bass boats.  It has miles of steep canyon walls and bunches of impressive main lakes points.  It also has some narrow canyons off the main lake.  The small lake is stocked with family fishing fish.  The big lake is stocked with trout during the winter and that’s where the hawgs come from – chomping on the trout.  The big lake also has smallmouth which is good and stripers which is bad.  Ever since the stripers got into the lake, the 20 lb. hawgs have disappeared.  They might be there, but they are few and far between.  The stripers are the big bad guys now, and they don’t mind chomping on a bass or two if the trout aren’t around.  But even with the stripers around, there are throphies in that lake, they’re just a little harder to catch than they used to be. Richard

Response:

Bass Rogue, Thanks for the info.  I called the number and got a message about them being a half mile from the lake?  Are the renting boats on upper lake yet?  About 2 weeks ago they weren’t.   – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – writes: Does anyone have any info on the boat rental situation at Lake Castaic (California)?   For the upper lake, the big lake, I think they’re something like $24 for the first two hours and then $6 per hour.  The maximum is $66 on the weekend. (805) 257-2049. For the after bay, the little lake, I think it’s something like $7 an hour for a max of $40.  No gas motors on the lower lake. (805)295-0849. Richard

Response:

Bill, The stripers are there because when those SoCal people stole our North Calif water, they sucked it and most of the striper fry from the San Francisco Delta.  For those who have not been West, most of the people in this state are in LA and the Southern part of the state.  They have a voracious appetite for water, worse than those Castaic U.G.’s for trout.  They built a ditch from San Francisco to LA that is 30′ deep and 300′ wide.

Now wait a minute here, I think you’re looking at all of this wrong.  I thought we were doing you a big favor by draining off that excess water so you wouldn’t get floods and stuff like that.  Damn, here we are being nice to you and you start complaining –  and I’ve never heard anyone down here complain about you sending us waters polluted with stripers Now, I’ll agree there is a big ditch running from up there to down here somewhere, but most of the water doesn’t get that far.  I think 90% of the water is actually used by farms along the way, and that’s where the real racket is.  The water is taken from Northern California and paid for by Southern California, but is actually used in between by farmers at reduced rates.  On the books, they actually show the water as going to LA at some dollar cost per acre foot and then sold to the farmers at reduced rates because it is excess water. Richard

Response:

Bob, Now that I didn’t know: stripers chomping on Black Bass.  Oddly though, the other day I caught a bass and striper (both dinks) within a hundred yards of each other.  I guess the babies will play with each other until one realizes the other could be a meal.

Stripers, largemouth bass and smallmouth bass can all coexist in the same body of water and all three will survive; however, the pecking order changes when the stripers are introduced – they go to the top of the list.  The lake records for stripers out here are about 40 pounds, and a fish that size can eat a pretty good size chunk of something. Stripers and bass compete with each other over parts of the food chain.  Both fish tend to feed on shad and when a school of stripers goes to town on a school of shad, there isn’t much left over for the bass, unless the bass is a real hawg and is feeding along with the stripers. Besides thinning out the largemouth bass and smallmouth bass by chomping on them when they are small, I think the stripers also affect the size of the bass by making the bass work harder for their food.  I read somewhere that a largewmouth bass can live to about 20 years and can gain about one pound a year.  Now, if that ugly sucker has to work real hard to eat, it probably only gains about a half a ound a year and so the big hawgs disappear from a lake.   So, throw the ugly suckers back and have a fish fry if you snag a striper. Richard

Response:

writes: Thanks for the info.  I called the number and got a message about them being a half mile from the lake?  Are the renting boats on upper lake yet?  About 2 weeks ago they weren’t.

I thought I saw one rental boat on the lake.  I didn’t see a place on the lake to rent boats, but I tend to get preoccupied around the ramp trying not to run into anyone or anything. Richard

Response:

Actually Richard, the oldest (confirmed through its “earstone”, technically known as its “otolith”) verified beautiful green fish (Micropterus salmoides) ever verified was a 14 year old specimen taken from northern waters (NY State).  It weighed a shade under 7 pounds.  In optimal conditions, a bass can reach 10 pounds in its first 4 years of life.  Hey, I had to go to college for something I was interested in, right? Warren – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Bob, Now that I didn’t know: stripers chomping on Black Bass.  Oddly though, the other day I caught a bass and striper (both dinks) within a hundred yards of each other.  I guess the babies will play with each other until one realizes the other could be a meal. Stripers, largemouth bass and smallmouth bass can all coexist in the same body of water and all three will survive; however, the pecking order changes when the stripers are introduced – they go to the top of the list.  The lake records for stripers out here are about 40 pounds, and a fish that size can eat a pretty good size chunk of something. Stripers and bass compete with each other over parts of the food chain.  Both fish tend to feed on shad and when a school of stripers goes to town on a school of shad, there isn’t much left over for the bass, unless the bass is a real hawg and is feeding along with the stripers. Besides thinning out the largemouth bass and smallmouth bass by chomping on them when they are small, I think the stripers also affect the size of the bass by making the bass work harder for their food.  I read somewhere that a largewmouth bass can live to about 20 years and can gain about one pound a year.  Now, if that ugly sucker has to work real hard to eat, it probably only gains about a half a ound a year and so the big hawgs disappear from a lake. So, throw the ugly suckers back and have a fish fry if you snag a striper. Richard

Response:

but I tend to get preoccupied around the ramp trying not to run into anyone or anything.

…you’re not so careful when you’re on-plane doing 70 mph on the big water though are you, Richard?  I heard you take-out jetskiers like the Broncos take out their opponents… Warren

Response:

Warren …you’re not so careful when you’re on-plane doing 70 mph on the big water though are you, Richard?  I heard you take-out jetskiers like the Broncos take out their opponents…

Seems to me, I’ve taken out a jetski with the Bassin’ Dreadnought before.  I believe it was one of those stories about two solid objects trying to occupy the same place at the same time.  Bass Boat -1, Jet Ski – 0 Richard

Response:

Warren, Actually Richard, the oldest (confirmed through its “earstone”, technically known as its “otolith”) verified beautiful green fish (Micropterus salmoides) ever verified was a 14 year old specimen taken from northern waters (NY State).  It weighed a shade under 7 pounds.  In optimal conditions, a bass can reach 10 pounds in its first 4 years of life.  Hey, I had to go to college for something I was interested in, right?

This reads like the beginning of a FAQ article.  I don’t think we have anything in the outline for this.  How about you write an article with all the scientific terms and stuff like that, and I’ll redo the table of contents and make a place for it Richard

Response:

Only ONE jetski Richard?  And I thought you were a professional… Warren – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Warren …you’re not so careful when you’re on-plane doing 70 mph on the big water though are you, Richard?  I heard you take-out jetskiers like the Broncos take out their opponents… Seems to me, I’ve taken out a jetski with the Bassin’ Dreadnought before.  I believe it was one of those stories about two solid objects trying to occupy the same place at the same time.  Bass Boat -1, Jet Ski – 0 Richard

Response:

I don’t know Richard, I’m no Grits Gresham you know… Warren (flattered once again by Bass Rogue) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Warren, Actually Richard, the oldest (confirmed through its “earstone”, technically known as its “otolith”) verified beautiful green fish (Micropterus salmoides) ever verified was a 14 year old specimen taken from northern waters (NY State).  It weighed a shade under 7 pounds.  In optimal conditions, a bass can reach 10 pounds in its first 4 years of life.  Hey, I had to go to college for something I was interested in, right? This reads like the beginning of a FAQ article.  I don’t think we have anything in the outline for this.  How about you write an article with all the scientific terms and stuff like that, and I’ll redo the table of contents and make a place for it Richard

Response:

Does anyone have any info on the boat rental situation at Lake Castaic (California)?   Thanks

Response:

How does the fishing compare in the two lakes Richard?  Are they seperate, or connected?  The Castaic mystique always intrigues me; I can’t even imagine hooking a bass in the 20 pound class, even having landed one over 12 & another over 11 on the same day. Thanks, Warren – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – writes: Does anyone have any info on the boat rental situation at Lake Castaic (California)? For the upper lake, the big lake, I think they’re something like $24 for the first two hours and then $6 per hour.  The maximum is $66 on the weekend. (805) 257-2049. For the after bay, the little lake, I think it’s something like $7 an hour for a max of $40.  No gas motors on the lower lake. (805)295-0849. Richard

Response:

Warren, I wouldn’t mind landing a couple of bass of any size lately!! <G Jim Pankey USN (Ret.) “Barbless Bassin’” – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – How does the fishing compare in the two lakes Richard?  Are they seperate, or connected?  The Castaic mystique always intrigues me; I can’t even imagine hooking a bass in the 20 pound class, even having landed one over 12 & another over 11 on the same day. Thanks, Warren (fdp) writes: Does anyone have any info on the boat rental situation at Lake Castaic (California)? For the upper lake, the big lake, I think they’re something like $24 for the first two hours and then $6 per hour.  The maximum is $66 on the weekend. (805) 257-2049. For the after bay, the little lake, I think it’s something like $7 an hour for a max of $40.  No gas motors on the lower lake. (805)295-0849. Richard

Response:

Question:

Why don’t you show some proof in your statement:bass fishing boat for salel “If you want fish for a meal, net him and knock him unconscious with a blow  to the head or buy it at the Super Market which sells fish caught and killed  more humanely.” — DAMN PETA PEOPLE

Response:

Yeah, Sharks are REAL defenseless. Why must a sport be ‘Macho’ – maybe you consider full-contact to be more ‘worthy’?bass fishing boat for salel I know I am going to hear much wailing and gnashing of teeth but just think about it.  What can be more childish and cruel than to hook a poor harmless and defenseless fish and then tease him until he tires and you either release him wounded to be caught another day or boat him to finally put him out of his misery? Only a person with a childish mind would dangle food in front of a defenseless animal  in order took hook and torture him.  Unlike many other sports there is nothing macho about catching a fish by tempting him with food and then teasing him until he gives up.bass fishing boat for salel  If you want fish for a meal, net him and knock him unconscious with a blow to the head or buy it at the Super Market which sells fish caught and killed more humanely.

Response:

Bill Mech For info on politics, taxes, education etc., go to http://home.att.net/~wmech

The only response I want to give to this post is that this is a fishing newsgroup made up of people with similar views.  I do not welcome posts such as what contributed here.

Your running low on brain power.  My message is about “fishing” and the newsgroup is about “fishing”! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I know I am going to hear much wailing and gnashing of teeth but just think about it.  What can be more childish and cruel than to hook a poor harmless and defenseless fish and then tease him until he tires and you either release him wounded to be caught another day or boat him to finally put him out of his misery? Only a person with a childish mind would dangle food in front of a defenseless animal  in order took hook and torture him.  Unlike many other sports there is nothing macho about catching a fish by tempting him with food and then teasing him until he gives up. If you want fish for a meal, net him and knock him unconscious with a blow to the head or buy it at the Super Market which sells fish caught and killed more humanely.

Response:

Isn’t there a village in need of an idiot that you can pester?

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Bill Mech For info on politics, taxes, education etc., go to http://home.att.net/~wmech The only response I want to give to this post is that this is a fishing newsgroup made up of people with similar views.  I do not welcome posts such as what contributed here. Your running low on brain power.  My message is about “fishing” and the newsgroup is about “fishing”! I know I am going to hear much wailing and gnashing of teeth but just think about it.  What can be more childish and cruel than to hook a poor harmless and defenseless fish and then tease him until he tires and you either release him wounded to be caught another day or boat him to finally put him out of his misery? Only a person with a childish mind would dangle food in front of a defenseless animal  in order took hook and torture him.  Unlike many other sports there is nothing macho about catching a fish by tempting him with food and then teasing him until he gives up. If you want fish for a meal, net him and knock him unconscious with a blow to the head or buy it at the Super Market which sells fish caught and killed more humanely.

Response:

I gave this guy a chance and checked out his website.

I don’t know why you would bother. It’s pretty obvious that he is one of those people who feels the world should run in accordance with HIS sensibilities, and wants to force HIS beliefs on the rest of us. What did you expect to find there, other than him, preaching his own gospel. RichZ

Question:

I always like to hear true fishing stories that are  funny or unusual. Ill tell mine mabey someone else has a good one I was fishing the stripper pits in southern indiana in the back pits off the main pit. It was (Gospel Truth) so dark back in the channels I couldn’t  florida bass fishing boat rental see the front of my 11 ft john boat. I was oar paddling and throwing in front of the boat in pitch dark like I  had done many times before. This particular area was very narrow 5′ and 2′ deep with trees growing overhead blocking the light and making throwing after dark a guaranteed snag Does anyone have an idea what it is like to run into a deer in the water, in pitch black with the banging of hoofs on your boat wondering whether you are going to have a friend in your lap? It took a long time before I could bring my self to go there again after dark . I really enjoy fishing after dark with the jitterbug ,rapalas and popper. Tell me your  funny story

Response:

One time i was fishing in florida bass fishing boat rental an area that could only described as the arse end of nowhere. I was on a trail at the edge of the lake and was approached by two backwoods types. They were native aboriginals and scruffy and tough looking…..like me. All i hoped was this wasn’t going to be some scene out of Deliverence. Well it turns out these chaps were so polite and well spoken it would put you to shame.They had perfect diction and spoke  multi-syllable words like they were university professors. They told me a lot about the area and gave me tips on viewing wildlife. They wished me well  florida bass fishing boat rental on my fishing and went on their way. It is funny because i always remembered this encounter and it taught me a lesson too. Al Incomplete angler-writer

Response:

One night while night fishing from my old aluminum boat,florida bass fishing boat rental I had put a picnic lamp (clip on lamp) with a 12v bulb in it clipped to the middle of the shore side of the boat, because my partner said he couldn’t see the bank without a light of some kind.  I was in the front of the boat casting ahead of the light when I got a strike that didn’t seem just right.  I could have sworn that it came before the lure hit the water.  However, since the fish had missed on the strike, I just retrieved the spinner bait I was fishing with and cast again.  This time the strike was definitely just before the lure hit the water.  I felt the strike, then I heard the splash as the lure and its capture hit the water.  I fought for a second then told my partner that it must be a small fish foul hooked on the trailer because it is spinning through the water and most of its fight is just drag.  About that time the end of my line came into view of the light.  That’s when I saw that I had caught a small brown bat, or should I say, he caught me.  The little bat had caught the spinner bait flying through the air, but found that it fought back a little more than your ordinary moth or beetle.  He was soaking wet, and pissed off, but he wasn’t going to release his catch.  He wasn’t hooked, he just had the lure in is feet and his wings wrapped around it.  I had to hold him under the water at the tip of my rod for a few seconds before he decided that he would have to let go to get air.  I was worried that he would be too wet and couldn’t fly, but he hit the surface, jumped into the air with the aid of his wings, and sped away. As many times as I have night fished, that’s the only time I have caught a bat on the lure.  I have had several hit my line, and I have even hit a few with the lure, but catching one was plenty for me. Bassman – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I always like to hear true fishing stories that are  funny or unusual. Ill tell mine mabey someone else has a good one I was fishing the stripper pits in southern indiana in the back pits off the main pit. It was (Gospel Truth) so dark back in the channels I couldn’t see the front of my 11 ft john boat. I was oar paddling and throwing in front of the boat in pitch dark like I  had done many times before. This particular area was very narrow 5′ and 2′ deep with trees growing overhead blocking the light and making throwing after dark a guaranteed snag Does anyone have an idea what it is like to run into a deer in the water, in pitch black with the banging of hoofs on your boat wondering whether you are going to have a friend in your lap? It took a long time before I could bring my self to go there again after dark . I really enjoy fishing after dark with the jitterbug ,rapalas and popper. Tell me your  funny story — Highlander

Response:

Thetas a good one As a kid we would go to the woods and tie a red cloth on a fishing line and swing it and watch the bats attract it. Where I fish the bats the go after the lures all the time but  I got to say I never caught one. The deer experience was enough for me. — Highlander

Response:

I always like to hear true fishing stories that are  funny or unusual. Tell me your  funny story

I was fishing a club tournament in my boat.  I have a trolling motor mounted on the transom and I tell my non-boater he can use it to help position himself and I will ask him to turn it on briefly if I over shoot my target with the front motor.  So…  I had just made a cast to laydown with a Zoom Brush Hog when I felt the line pulling away from me.  I dropped my rod tip and set the hook only to have my rod jerked out of my hands and into the water.  I dropped down on my knees and was able to grab my rod just before it sunk out of sight.  My partner had started the back motor and the line was tightening because we were moving backwards, I set the hook into the laydown!  It was a new rod and a brand new Abu 4601C4 reel, I sure was glad I was able to catch it in time. — Richard Delaware Bass Stalkers http://www.bassstalkers.com

Response:

two stories, both about losing rods. #1. Thousand Islands B.A.S.S. tourney — I think it was in ‘76. strong wind and pouring rain. Race to my first spot.make a few casts with a light jig, but the wind is making it impossible to fish the way I had been in practice. Climb down off the front deck and go into the rod box for a spinnerbait rod. Of course there’s 3 rods laying on top of the rod box lid and the strap is not hooked. Just as I pull my head out of the rod box, I see one going over. I drop the rod locker lid and make a stab at it. Hanging as far over the side as I can, I am just about to touch the handle as the rod sinks out of site, when I get yanked almost full upright from behind. Seems my partner hadn’t seen anything except me going over, and thought I had slipped. Cost for the day, 3 rods. The one I had seen going over was apparently the 2nd one to do so. And when my partner stepped on the rod box lid as he rushed to ’save’ me, the spinnerbait rod that I had half out when I saw my lite spinning rod going over got snapped in half, too. Story 2. I think it was the year before that. I had just come back from fishing 2 consecutive tourneys (BASS and NBAA) at 1000 Islands. I think I was there for 10 days. Drove home Saturday, and had a club tourney on Lillinonah on Sunday. To say I was beat was an understatement. I’m up the Housatonic arm of the lake, throwing a crankbait along a shreline with scattered laydowns. And right smack in the middle of making a cast, I fell asleep. Rod came out of my hand and kept right on going. partner is commiserating. Actually, he was laughing out loud. But then I see the crankbait float to the surface! No problem, I’ll get that sucker back. I start to electric over to the plug, which is about 30 feet or so away. Half way there, it ’sinks’. Pissed,  I take my foot off the trolling motor button. Up pops the plug again. Hit the switch, and down it goes again. You guessed it. I had snagged the line with the trolling motor. Naturally, the line had been cut on the rod side, and it wound the plug right down to the prop. I let my partner have the front of the boat for the rest of the day, and I sat in the back, mostly sleeping. RichZ