Question:
Seen a Butterfly Koi today that really looked sharp.world largemouth bass It was all silver (Actually shined from the sun at the bottom of a 5′ pond) with no other coloring, and the fins were really large and in perfect condition.(I’m using my own opinion on this) The Koi was 12 or 13″ long.world largemouth bass What in your opinion would be a fair price on a Koi like this? TIA
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Was it silver (gin) or platinum (white) Ogon (solid color) ? It really depends on where you are, here on Canada’s west coast you could expect to pay about $200 depending on quality, show koi going for thousands. If you really love it then pay what you think it’s worth to you.world largemouth bass Seen a Butterfly Koi today that really looked sharp. It was all silver (Actually shined from the sun at the bottom of a 5′ pond) with no other coloring, and the fins were really large and in perfect condition.(I’m using my own opinion on this) The Koi was 12 or 13″ long. What in your opinion would be a fair price on a Koi like this? TIA
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I was given one “similar” to this and the same size… they called it a ghost koi and the retail price was $125.00. I bought a real small one later on for $10.00.world largemouth bass . “It’s not hard to meet expenses; they’re everywhere.” Seen a Butterfly Koi today that really looked sharp.
The Koi was 12 or 13″ long. What in your opinionworld largemouth bass would be a fair price on a Koi like this?
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In Missouri you can pay as much as $10.00 per inch. Sometimes more depending on type of koi and you will be lucky to find butterfly koi this year here. VJ –
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Seen a Butterfly Koi today that really looked sharp. It was all silver (Actually shined from the sun at the bottom of a 5′ pond) with no other coloring, and the fins were really large and in perfect condition.(I’m using my own opinion on this) The Koi was 12 or 13″ long. What in your opinion would be a fair price on a Koi like this? TIA
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The short answer seems, if the price is good for you then that’s all that matters. Otherwise, could you tell us what they’re asking for the fish. That would give a better ballpark figure to know if you are being gouged or not. I will agree that if the fish is as pretty as you say $100 is not outrageous. — Todo — North Florida Koi Club,
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Seen a Butterfly Koi today that really looked sharp. It was all silver (Actually shined from the sun at the bottom of a 5′ pond) with no other coloring, and the fins were really large and in perfect condition.(I’m using my own opinion on this) The Koi was 12 or 13″ long. What in your opinion would be a fair price on a Koi like this? TIA
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Seen a Butterfly Koi today that really looked sharp. It was all silver (Actually shined from the sun at the bottom of a 5′ pond) with no other coloring, and the fins were really large and in perfect condition.(I’m using my own opinion on this) The Koi was 12 or 13″ long. What in your opinion would be a fair price on a Koi like this? TIA
Bill: It is just how much you want the fish. I have to watch my pennies (old guy on a fixed income you know 
), so I figure I can earn $50 to $100 by buying a small quality fish and growing it to the size you mention in a year. vern — Visit my Ponds at: HTTP://www.webpak.net/~vrolson
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Thanks, you all made me feel better of my purchase, I wasn’t sure if I did good or not!! I’m new at this, so I really appreciate the help. I guess you can tell I don’t know my “Koi Kolors”! As D/E van Ryswyk pointed out the color is a Platinum (Pure White), with very long flowing fins, all in good shape. Now the weird part of the story starts! I had been to the nursery about a month ago, and first seen the this Koi. I had just left a fish store where they had 2 Koi just like this one for sale as a pair for $60.00, but they were about 2 1/2″ long. I asked the girl taking care of the fish, if that fish was for sale, and she said “No, because the fish in that pond are to hard to catch.” I left it at that, because the other store had the smaller ones, if I really wanted one that bad. Yesterday my cousin and I were driving around, and being that he also has a new pond, I wanted to show him the two Koi at the store, and I was thinking to myself that I might talk him into splitting the pair with me if he really liked them. Well of course the two were gone, so I took him over to the nursery to show him the big one. On the way I was thinking that being the end of the season, maybe they would make the effort to catch this fish, and sell it to me. When we got there, there was a different girl doing the pond stuff, so I asked her if the Koi in the front pond were for sale. The answer I got was,”Well I was told no by the other girl, but I think her opinion is biased, so I’ll go ask the owner.” She came back and said “yes, they are for sale, any fish in the pond for $49.95″. Well after almost ripping the back pocket off my pants, trying to get to my wallet, (of course keeping my composure at all times!) I told her that the one I wanted was the White Butterfly Koi. she went and got two nets, and in about 10 min. it was in the bag (so to speak!) When we walked into the main store part of the nursery, you should have seen the heads turn! All the other sales girls were telling her that that Koi was not for sale! Then one of them said “none of the fish in that pond are for sale, ESPECIALLY THAT ONE !!” (well I thought the jig was up, and there was a large tear forming in me eye.) The sales girl replied that she had asked the owner, and even asked if he was sure, and he ok’ed the sale. Well we almost burned rubber leaving the place, and I’m hoping that other sales girl, that usually takes care of the fish at the nursery, is not lurking in my yard at night with a net, and a gun!! But I got the Koi for 49.99, and he seams very happy in my pond!! Thanks again for the help. Bill Gunn P.S. I wonder if she reads this news group!
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Thanks, you all made me feel better of my purchase, I wasn’t sure if I did good or not!!
<snip But I got the Koi for 49.99, and he seams very happy in my pond!! Thanks again for the help. Bill Gunn P.S. I wonder if she reads this news group!
that was cheaper than wholesale cost on a fish/type that size — Ken Arnold, ICQ # 1028648 KenCo Fish & Supplies Pond and Aquarium fish, Shipping plants/fish etc. a specialty Imported & domestic Koi,Goldfish,Orandas, Tropicals,exotics, Piranhas etc.
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I recently bought a yellow butterfly with very little black shading -17 inches long for $200 at a retail store here in Santa Cruz, CA. Got tired of lurking! — Barry
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Seen a Butterfly Koi today that really looked sharp. It was all silver (Actually shined from the sun at the bottom of a 5′ pond) with no other coloring, and the fins were really large and in perfect condition.(I’m using my own opinion on this) The Koi was 12 or 13″ long. What in your opinion would be a fair price on a Koi like this? TIA
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Barry, tired of lurking, wrote ~~I recently bought a yellow butterfly with very little black shading -17 inches long for $200 at a retail store here in Santa Cruz, CA. ~~ Hi Barry! Welcome to rec.ponds! Every once in a while I get an attack of koi envy and your new butterfly did it. Sounds like a loverly fish. k30 and the water gardening labradors REC.PONDS INFORMAL FAQ PAGE http://hometown.aol.com/k30a/myhomepage/writing.html
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Hi Barry, welcome to the group. Tell us about your pond and fish…. 
) — Carol… “Jury: Twelve people who determine which client has the better attorney.” – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Got tired of lurking!
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Prices for Koi at Local Breeder, seems to charge the same for Butterfly Koi, these prices are approximate, but very close. Once they hit 12″ the price skyrockets! 10 to 24″……I don’t know, never seen one priced at this breeder of this size.
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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Prices for Koi at Local Breeder, seems to charge the same for Butterfly Koi, these prices are approximate, but very close. Once they hit 12″ the price skyrockets! 10 to 24″……I don’t know, never seen one priced at this breeder of this size.
If yall are buying “Butterfly Koi”, you’re getting ripped off even if you are getting $10 to take the fish away. Butterfly koi, not even koi, harrrumph. Brett
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Last week I was at Petsmart and saw the a gorgeous butterfly koi–all shiny bright yellow with black trim, about 5 inches long for 3 bucks.
The Petsmart in my area also carries koi for $1.99 and up. I bought 6 3″ koi last spring ($1.99 each) and they are now beautiful fish. A few are metallic orange and some are yellow, one is bluish,… some have sparkle/diamond scales, one doesn’t… what beauties! The 5″ koi they were selling were $9.99 and they had a few real nice one’s about 8″ that were $69.99. There were not butterfly koi though. I found really choice butterfly koi at the Aquatic Critter in Nashville for $5.99 and up. This is all colors too, and all sizes. I bought a bunch of them. :o) — Carol… “The only difference between a rut and a grave is the depth.” – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -
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Butterfly koi, not even koi, harrrumph.
WHAT? Are ye daft? They’re beautiful with those long flowing fins, they’re so graceful, so ethereal…. and they come in so many colors. — Carol… likes all koi…. and GF…. “The only difference between a rut and a grave is the depth.”
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Koi for money? I partake in the Jan Jordan Fish Adoption program. k30 and the water gardening labradors REC.PONDS INFORMAL FAQ PAGE http://hometown.aol.com/k30a/myhomepage/writing.html
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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Prices for Koi at Local Breeder, seems to charge the same for Butterfly Koi, these prices are approximate, but very close. Once they hit 12″ the price skyrockets! 10 to 24″……I don’t know, never seen one priced at this breeder of this size. If yall are buying “Butterfly Koi”, you’re getting ripped off even if you
are getting $10 to take the fish away. Butterfly koi, not even koi, harrrumph. Brett
NO way…. I know what I like and I like butterfly koi….. they are prettier and showier.. vj
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Butterfly koi, not even koi, harrrumph. WHAT? Are ye daft? They’re beautiful with those long flowing fins, they’re so graceful, so ethereal…. and they come in so many colors. — Carol… likes all koi…. and GF…. “The only difference between a rut and a grave is the depth.”
They are deformed and fly in the face of true animal breeding tenets. By definition, a breeder is working to improve the breed. Propogating physical deformities does not fit that definition (for me). I feel very much the same about goldfish. The “breed anything for money” mentality doesn’t work well in horses, dogs, or fish. OTOH, I have seen one or two longfins that were atractive in thier own way. But, they are not koi. Koi do not have long fins. They have thier place in the ornamental fish world, and are even beginning to show up with thier own category in koi shows. However, I’ve seen time and again, a longfin disqualified and not be judged as a koi, because it is not one. I’ve even had to be a longfin judge in the past at fish shows because most certified judges will not judge them. I know they are popular in the US. In Japan, even the breeder that did the most to develop the breed has given up and sold his breeding stock a few years back. As far as I know, most longfins are now only bred in the US where there seems to be a strong market. You won’t find any coming from my farm. I must admit, though, I have been experimenting with “normal” koi out of longfin lineage as breeding stock for stronger koi. Longfins are tough and grow fast and big, all good qualities which would be a benefit in koi. I’ve not been doing it long enough to see if it might be working. Brett
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Brett knows a lot about Koi breeding, as the folks in this group are well aware of . To ridicule someone about text wrapping is irrelevant , and tells everybody you just figured it out. Vince GMT): By definition, a breeder is working to improve the breed. Propogating
physical deformities does not fit that definition (for me). I feel very much the same about goldfish. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Obviously, you know little about breeding (or how to keep lines to < 79 chars, at most (heh-heh) Corne1 Huth - http://40th.com/ Bullet database engines/servers 3.1 Win32-WinCE-OS2-Linux+
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By definition, a breeder is working to improve the breed. Propogating physical deformities does not fit that definition
(for me). I feel very much the same about goldfish. Obviously, you know little about breeding (or how to keep lines to < 79 chars, at most). Breeders only care about what sells, that’s the way it is, and in-breeding gets you what in-breeding gets you. My butterfly koi are kool koi. My BK are tough koi. BK probably aren’t what you sell, so it’s easy (and in your best interest) to poo-poo BK. (heh-heh) Corne1 Huth - http://40th.com/ Bullet database engines/servers 3.1 Win32-WinCE-OS2-Linux+
I have only been a fish breeder. During the last 20 or so years, I’ve bred about 60 species and hybrids of fishes and invertebrates commercially. During that entire time, I’ve practiced sound breeding and worked to improve the breed as well as make it profitable. This has been the case with channel catfish for the table, largemouth bass for the fishing lake, and koi for the back yard pool. Each operation in which I was the person responsible for breeding fish for whatever purpose has a record of my attempts to improve the breed for its intended use. My outbred strain of channel catfish grew quickly, had an excellent dress out percentage, and was resistant to poor water quality and disease. For five years, I bred and stocked over 35 million channel catfish each year. I used selected stock from nine states, including strains from private, state and federal sources. The problems associated with breeding such huge numbers of animals is staggering. In the 40 or so years of the catfish business in the US, catfish producers (not breeders) have managed to breed strains that are susceptible to every known disease, have as many as 15 extra fins, have heads 40% bigger than normal, and even cannot be caught with a seine. Fish breeding by default instead of by design. For the last decade or so, I’ve been breeding a “more catchable” strain of largemouth bass. Catchability is a trait in bass as well as in catfish. The trait is catchability and does not require inbreeding to bring it about. More catchable bass are better suited to the purpose. And a buncha other stuff, like blue catfish, and hybrid buffalo fish, and coppernose bluegills, and threadfin shad, and tilapia, and …. Anyhow, your point is well taken, I don’t breed longfins and don’t care for them. I do breed and sell. I don’t only care about “what sells”. I could make a great deal more money by converting about half of my facility into longfin production. A pond grade longfin sells for 300% more than a pond grade koi and is about the same cost to produce. There is a much bigger market for longfins in the US. If I were really only interested in breeding what sells, I’d be breeding only longfins. I wouldn’t have to compete with highly bred animals from 100 year old breeding farms. It would be ever so much less difficult for me with respect to finances. A feller from Texas doesn’t have to be Japanese to sell his longfin fish. Anybody can get a couple of longfins and raise a batch that will sell without having to sort and throw away most of the offspring. No judges out there setting standards, no large population of stunning individuals with which to compete, a much less difficult landscape than that for a Texas koi breeder. If it were only for the money, I’d have a farm full of longfins. But of course, I don’t know much about breeding, though. Brett
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Dont dis my fish!!! Ingrid List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List for care of goldfish go to http://puregold.aquaria.net/
I dont understand how someone can push Dandys fish and keep mutts ;P couldnt resist….. — Ken Arnold, ICQ # 1028648 KenCo Fish & Supplies Pond and Aquarium fish, Shipping plants/fish etc. a specialty Imported & domestic Koi,Goldfish,Orandas, Tropicals,exotics, Piranhas etc.
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But of course, I don’t know much about breeding, though. Meant breeders, but okay, if you say so. Corne1 Huth - http://40th.com/ Bullet database engines/servers 3.1 Win32-WinCE-OS2-Linux+
Makes more sense to me now. In that context, you are sadly correct in (most) of your assumptions. Brett
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They are deformed and fly in the face of true animal breeding
tenets. By definition, a breeder is working to improve the breed.
*** What do you mean exactly by deformed as it’s only the fins that are elongated. Propogating physical deformities does not fit that definition (for me). I feel very much the same about goldfish. *** I agree. Some GF are so deformed (body and fins) that they look like freaks and surely are a burden to themselves. The “breed anything for money” mentality doesn’t work well in horses,
dogs, or fish. *** It must work… look at all the dog breeds – talk about deformities! And the breeders find buyers. OTOH, I have seen one or two longfins that were atractive in thier
own way. But, they are not koi. Koi do not have long fins.
*** If they’re not koi what are they? They look like koi except for the fins. Aren’t they a cross between the long finned carp and the koi? Aren’t they fertile? They have thier place in the ornamental fish world, and are even beginning to show up with thier own category in koi shows. However, I’ve seen time and again, a longfin disqualified and
not be judged as a koi, because it is not one. *** I see. But to those of us not interested in shows or $5,000.00 koi for our ponds they are quite beautiful. Speaking only for myself, I like to watch them swim around my ponds. I’ve even had to be a longfin judge in the past at fish shows because
most certified judges will not judge them. *** Why? Couldn’t be “snobbery” could it? :O) I know they are popular in the US.
*** They’re VERY popular here in TN. In Japan, even the breeder that did the most to develop the breed has given up and sold his breeding stock a few years back. As far as I know, most longfins
are now only bred in the US where there seems to be a strong market.
*** Probably a market among the non show crowd such as myself, where health and beauty come before “what wins at the shows.” You won’t find any coming from my farm.
*** You’re in business… us every day ponders are not. I must admit, though, I have been experimenting with “normal” koi out of longfin lineage as breeding stock for stronger koi.
*** Sounds good… you’re adding new genes. Longfins are tough and grow fast and big, all good qualities which would be a benefit in koi. I’ve not been doing it long enough to see if it
might be working. *** I also like the BF’s slimmer build as it makes them appear even more graceful and elegant. The quality I’ve seen this year far surpasses what was avalible even 2 years ago. — Carol… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Brett
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If you waited to adopt BF koi here you better plan to live a few hundred years. — Carol… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Koi for money? I partake in the Jan Jordan Fish Adoption program.
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They are deformed and fly in the face of true animal breeding tenets. By definition, a breeder is working to improve the breed. *** What do you mean exactly by deformed as it’s only the fins that are elongated.
That is a deformity. You would not find such an animal surviving outside of captivity. Propogating physical deformities does not fit that definition (for me). I feel very much the same about goldfish. *** I agree. Some GF are so deformed (body and fins) that they look like freaks and surely are a burden to themselves.
They are. I like goldfish even less than longfins, with the exception of sarassa comets. I find them very attractive. The “breed anything for money” mentality doesn’t work well in horses, dogs, or fish. *** It must work… look at all the dog breeds – talk about deformities! And the breeders find buyers.
You’re right, it works well with respect to finances, not with respect to biology. How long is a “papillon” going to live outside of a climate controlled kennel (or home) without a highly regulated diet? Same is true for those “bulbous eyed” goldfish. The first osprey that comes along is going to have a hard choice between them. Probly catch and eat both in the same day. OTOH, I have seen one or two longfins that were atractive in thier own way. But, they are not koi. Koi do not have long fins. *** If they’re not koi what are they?
They are longfinned carp with colored bodies. They can’t be koi as they do not fit the requirements for the standards of the breed. Saying a longfinned carp is a koi is like saying donkey is a horse. They look like koi except for the fins. Aren’t they a cross between the long finned carp and the koi? Aren’t they fertile?
Yes to both counts. Still doesn’t make them a koi. You can say, “A koi is a carp, and a longfin is a carp, as far as it goes, so is a common carp.” You can’t say a common carp or a longfin is a koi. Longfins and koi are both common carps, or at least belong to the same genus and species as common carps (Cyprinus carpio). They have thier place in the ornamental fish world, and are even beginning to show up with thier own category in koi shows. However, I’ve seen time and again, a longfin disqualified and not be judged as a koi, because it is not one. *** I see. But to those of us not interested in shows or $5,000.00 koi for our ponds they are quite beautiful. Speaking only for myself, I like to watch them swim around my ponds.
I got no problem with that at all. I just say I wouldn’t like seeing them swimming around in my ponds. As to fish shows, I’ve many, many friends that show fish they bought from me and others, and win prizes, and payed as little as $30 for the fish. A quick tale. At one show a few years back I was asked, “what is the difference between the grand and reserve champions?” Both were very good kohaku. I knew the history behind both fish, one of them (the reserve champ, alas, was from my hatchery) the other from a famous Japanese hatchery. I thought a moment and told the person, “The difference is about $49,925.” The one fish had been purchased for $50K a few weeks before the show. The other from me for $75 three years earlier. I ask, “Who was the better fish keeper?” I’ve even had to be a longfin judge in the past at fish shows because most certified judges will not judge them. *** Why? Couldn’t be “snobbery” could it? :O)
Well…actually, a judge has the authority to DQ any animal which does not fulfill the requirments of the breed. You won’t find a dog judge judging a Heinz 57 as a poodle. Same is true in koi. The judge is only going to judge koi, he/she will not judge a striped bass or a longfin as a koi. I know they are popular in the US. *** They’re VERY popular here in TN. In Japan, even the breeder that did the most to develop the breed has given up and sold his breeding stock a few years back. As far as I know, most longfins are now only bred in the US where there seems to be a strong market. *** Probably a market among the non show crowd such as myself, where health and beauty come before “what wins at the shows.”
That is indeed the market for almost all koi. If I had to make my farm operate on the income from “show quality” fish it would have been out of business long ago. My customers are interested in health and beauty, also. You won’t find any coming from my farm. *** You’re in business… us every day ponders are not.
I keep telling myself that. My partner thinks we are BIG hobbiests. I must admit, though, I have been experimenting with “normal” koi out of longfin lineage as breeding stock for stronger koi. *** Sounds good… you’re adding new genes.
Always looking to breed a better, stronger animal. Like you say, “Health and beauty”, in that order. I see no point in trying to sell a fish so highly bred (and inbred) which looks remarkable, but anybody short of an expert can’t keep alive. I continue to try new things, some are my own ideas, some are those of my Japanese mentors. Longfins are tough and grow fast and big, all good qualities which would be a benefit in koi. I’ve not been doing it long enough to see if it might be working. *** I also like the BF’s slimmer build as it makes them appear even more graceful and elegant. The quality I’ve seen this year far surpasses what was avalible even 2 years ago.
Folks are getting to where a dull brown fish with long fins isn’t enough anymore. I’ve a friend in South Texas that breeds the most beautiful longfins I’ve seen. The problem for his stunning specimens is finding a proper market that will bear the price he must get for such specimens. If you think about it for a moment, longfins are primarily going into the “low end” market where fish must be priced inexpensively in order to sell. There are not many “longfin collectors” looking to purchase very high quality stock costing $hundreds or even thousands as there are in koi. He does like I do, enjoys his very best specimens himself as he has difficulty getting what they are worth (to him) from the market. Even good longfin shouldn’t be sold cheap. Brett – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text — Carol… Brett
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Seen a Butterfly Koi today that really looked sharp. It was all silver (Actually shined from the sun at the bottom of a 5′ pond) with no other coloring, and the fins were really large and in perfect condition.(I’m using my own opinion on this) The Koi was 12 or 13″ long. What in your opinion would be a fair price on a Koi like this? TIA
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Was it silver (gin) or platinum (white) Ogon (solid color) ? It really depends on where you are, here on Canada’s west coast you could expect to pay about $200 depending on quality, show koi going for thousands. If you really love it then pay what you think it’s worth to you. Dayleen – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Seen a Butterfly Koi today that really looked sharp. It was all silver (Actually shined from the sun at the bottom of a 5′ pond) with no other coloring, and the fins were really large and in perfect condition.(I’m using my own opinion on this) The Koi was 12 or 13″ long. What in your opinion would be a fair price on a Koi like this? TIA
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I was given one “similar” to this and the same size… they called it a ghost koi and the retail price was $125.00. I bought a real small one later on for $10.00. — Carol… “It’s not hard to meet expenses; they’re everywhere.” Seen a Butterfly Koi today that really looked sharp.
The Koi was 12 or 13″ long. What in your opinion – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – would be a fair price on a Koi like this?
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In Missouri you can pay as much as $10.00 per inch. Sometimes more depending on type of koi and you will be lucky to find butterfly koi this year here. VJ –
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Seen a Butterfly Koi today that really looked sharp. It was all silver (Actually shined from the sun at the bottom of a 5′ pond) with no other coloring, and the fins were really large and in perfect condition.(I’m using my own opinion on this) The Koi was 12 or 13″ long. What in your opinion would be a fair price on a Koi like this? TIA
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The short answer seems, if the price is good for you then that’s all that matters. Otherwise, could you tell us what they’re asking for the fish. That would give a better ballpark figure to know if you are being gouged or not. I will agree that if the fish is as pretty as you say $100 is not outrageous. — Todo — North Florida Koi Club,
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Seen a Butterfly Koi today that really looked sharp. It was all silver (Actually shined from the sun at the bottom of a 5′ pond) with no other coloring, and the fins were really large and in perfect condition.(I’m using my own opinion on this) The Koi was 12 or 13″ long. What in your opinion would be a fair price on a Koi like this? TIA
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Seen a Butterfly Koi today that really looked sharp. It was all silver (Actually shined from the sun at the bottom of a 5′ pond) with no other coloring, and the fins were really large and in perfect condition.(I’m using my own opinion on this) The Koi was 12 or 13″ long. What in your opinion would be a fair price on a Koi like this? TIA
Bill: It is just how much you want the fish. I have to watch my pennies (old guy on a fixed income you know ), so I figure I can earn $50 to $100 by buying a small quality fish and growing it to the size you mention in a year. vern — Visit my Ponds at: HTTP://www.webpak.net/~vrolson
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Thanks, you all made me feel better of my purchase, I wasn’t sure if I did good or not!! I’m new at this, so I really appreciate the help. I guess you can tell I don’t know my “Koi Kolors”! As D/E van Ryswyk pointed out the color is a Platinum (Pure White), with very long flowing fins, all in good shape. Now the weird part of the story starts! I had been to the nursery about a month ago, and first seen the this Koi. I had just left a fish store where they had 2 Koi just like this one for sale as a pair for $60.00, but they were about 2 1/2″ long. I asked the girl taking care of the fish, if that fish was for sale, and she said “No, because the fish in that pond are to hard to catch.” I left it at that, because the other store had the smaller ones, if I really wanted one that bad. Yesterday my cousin and I were driving around, and being that he also has a new pond, I wanted to show him the two Koi at the store, and I was thinking to myself that I might talk him into splitting the pair with me if he really liked them. Well of course the two were gone, so I took him over to the nursery to show him the big one. On the way I was thinking that being the end of the season, maybe they would make the effort to catch this fish, and sell it to me. When we got there, there was a different girl doing the pond stuff, so I asked her if the Koi in the front pond were for sale. The answer I got was,”Well I was told no by the other girl, but I think her opinion is biased, so I’ll go ask the owner.” She came back and said “yes, they are for sale, any fish in the pond for $49.95″. Well after almost ripping the back pocket off my pants, trying to get to my wallet, (of course keeping my composure at all times!) I told her that the one I wanted was the White Butterfly Koi. she went and got two nets, and in about 10 min. it was in the bag (so to speak!) When we walked into the main store part of the nursery, you should have seen the heads turn! All the other sales girls were telling her that that Koi was not for sale! Then one of them said “none of the fish in that pond are for sale, ESPECIALLY THAT ONE !!” (well I thought the jig was up, and there was a large tear forming in me eye.) The sales girl replied that she had asked the owner, and even asked if he was sure, and he ok’ed the sale. Well we almost burned rubber leaving the place, and I’m hoping that other sales girl, that usually takes care of the fish at the nursery, is not lurking in my yard at night with a net, and a gun!! But I got the Koi for 49.99, and he seams very happy in my pond!! Thanks again for the help. Bill Gunn P.S. I wonder if she reads this news group!
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Thanks, you all made me feel better of my purchase, I wasn’t sure if I did good or not!!
<snip But I got the Koi for 49.99, and he seams very happy in my pond!! Thanks again for the help. Bill Gunn P.S. I wonder if she reads this news group!
that was cheaper than wholesale cost on a fish/type that size — Ken Arnold, ICQ # 1028648 KenCo Fish & Supplies Pond and Aquarium fish, Shipping plants/fish etc. a specialty Imported & domestic Koi,Goldfish,Orandas, Tropicals,exotics, Piranhas etc.
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I recently bought a yellow butterfly with very little black shading -17 inches long for $200 at a retail store here in Santa Cruz, CA. Got tired of lurking! — Barry
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Seen a Butterfly Koi today that really looked sharp. It was all silver (Actually shined from the sun at the bottom of a 5′ pond) with no other coloring, and the fins were really large and in perfect condition.(I’m using my own opinion on this) The Koi was 12 or 13″ long. What in your opinion would be a fair price on a Koi like this? TIA
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Barry, tired of lurking, wrote ~~I recently bought a yellow butterfly with very little black shading -17 inches long for $200 at a retail store here in Santa Cruz, CA. ~~ Hi Barry! Welcome to rec.ponds! Every once in a while I get an attack of koi envy and your new butterfly did it. Sounds like a loverly fish. k30 and the water gardening labradors REC.PONDS INFORMAL FAQ PAGE http://hometown.aol.com/k30a/myhomepage/writing.html
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Hi Barry, welcome to the group. Tell us about your pond and fish…. ) — Carol… “Jury: Twelve people who determine which client has the better attorney.” – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Got tired of lurking!
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Prices for Koi at Local Breeder, seems to charge the same for Butterfly Koi, these prices are approximate, but very close. Once they hit 12″ the price skyrockets! 10 to 24″……I don’t know, never seen one priced at this breeder of this size.
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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Prices for Koi at Local Breeder, seems to charge the same for Butterfly Koi, these prices are approximate, but very close. Once they hit 12″ the price skyrockets! 10 to 24″……I don’t know, never seen one priced at this breeder of this size.
If yall are buying “Butterfly Koi”, you’re getting ripped off even if you are getting $10 to take the fish away. Butterfly koi, not even koi, harrrumph. Brett
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Last week I was at Petsmart and saw the a gorgeous butterfly koi–all shiny bright yellow with black trim, about 5 inches long for 3 bucks.
The Petsmart in my area also carries koi for $1.99 and up. I bought 6 3″ koi last spring ($1.99 each) and they are now beautiful fish. A few are metallic orange and some are yellow, one is bluish,… some have sparkle/diamond scales, one doesn’t… what beauties! The 5″ koi they were selling were $9.99 and they had a few real nice one’s about 8″ that were $69.99. There were not butterfly koi though. I found really choice butterfly koi at the Aquatic Critter in Nashville for $5.99 and up. This is all colors too, and all sizes. I bought a bunch of them. :o) — Carol… “The only difference between a rut and a grave is the depth.” – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -
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Butterfly koi, not even koi, harrrumph.
WHAT? Are ye daft? They’re beautiful with those long flowing fins, they’re so graceful, so ethereal…. and they come in so many colors. — Carol… likes all koi…. and GF…. “The only difference between a rut and a grave is the depth.”
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Koi for money? I partake in the Jan Jordan Fish Adoption program. k30 and the water gardening labradors REC.PONDS INFORMAL FAQ PAGE http://hometown.aol.com/k30a/myhomepage/writing.html
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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Prices for Koi at Local Breeder, seems to charge the same for Butterfly Koi, these prices are approximate, but very close. Once they hit 12″ the price skyrockets! 10 to 24″……I don’t know, never seen one priced at this breeder of this size. If yall are buying “Butterfly Koi”, you’re getting ripped off even if you
are getting $10 to take the fish away. Butterfly koi, not even koi, harrrumph. Brett
NO way…. I know what I like and I like butterfly koi….. they are prettier and showier.. vj
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Butterfly koi, not even koi, harrrumph. WHAT? Are ye daft? They’re beautiful with those long flowing fins, they’re so graceful, so ethereal…. and they come in so many colors. — Carol… likes all koi…. and GF…. “The only difference between a rut and a grave is the depth.”
They are deformed and fly in the face of true animal breeding tenets. By definition, a breeder is working to improve the breed. Propogating physical deformities does not fit that definition (for me). I feel very much the same about goldfish. The “breed anything for money” mentality doesn’t work well in horses, dogs, or fish. OTOH, I have seen one or two longfins that were atractive in thier own way. But, they are not koi. Koi do not have long fins. They have thier place in the ornamental fish world, and are even beginning to show up with thier own category in koi shows. However, I’ve seen time and again, a longfin disqualified and not be judged as a koi, because it is not one. I’ve even had to be a longfin judge in the past at fish shows because most certified judges will not judge them. I know they are popular in the US. In Japan, even the breeder that did the most to develop the breed has given up and sold his breeding stock a few years back. As far as I know, most longfins are now only bred in the US where there seems to be a strong market. You won’t find any coming from my farm. I must admit, though, I have been experimenting with “normal” koi out of longfin lineage as breeding stock for stronger koi. Longfins are tough and grow fast and big, all good qualities which would be a benefit in koi. I’ve not been doing it long enough to see if it might be working. Brett
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Brett knows a lot about Koi breeding, as the folks in this group are well aware of . To ridicule someone about text wrapping is irrelevant , and tells everybody you just figured it out. Vince GMT): By definition, a breeder is working to improve the breed. Propogating
physical deformities does not fit that definition (for me). I feel very much the same about goldfish. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Obviously, you know little about breeding (or how to keep lines to < 79 chars, at most (heh-heh) Corne1 Huth - http://40th.com/ Bullet database engines/servers 3.1 Win32-WinCE-OS2-Linux+
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By definition, a breeder is working to improve the breed. Propogating physical deformities does not fit that definition
(for me). I feel very much the same about goldfish. Obviously, you know little about breeding (or how to keep lines to < 79 chars, at most). Breeders only care about what sells, that’s the way it is, and in-breeding gets you what in-breeding gets you. My butterfly koi are kool koi. My BK are tough koi. BK probably aren’t what you sell, so it’s easy (and in your best interest) to poo-poo BK. (heh-heh) Corne1 Huth - http://40th.com/ Bullet database engines/servers 3.1 Win32-WinCE-OS2-Linux+
I have only been a fish breeder. During the last 20 or so years, I’ve bred about 60 species and hybrids of fishes and invertebrates commercially. During that entire time, I’ve practiced sound breeding and worked to improve the breed as well as make it profitable. This has been the case with channel catfish for the table, largemouth bass for the fishing lake, and koi for the back yard pool. Each operation in which I was the person responsible for breeding fish for whatever purpose has a record of my attempts to improve the breed for its intended use. My outbred strain of channel catfish grew quickly, had an excellent dress out percentage, and was resistant to poor water quality and disease. For five years, I bred and stocked over 35 million channel catfish each year. I used selected stock from nine states, including strains from private, state and federal sources. The problems associated with breeding such huge numbers of animals is staggering. In the 40 or so years of the catfish business in the US, catfish producers (not breeders) have managed to breed strains that are susceptible to every known disease, have as many as 15 extra fins, have heads 40% bigger than normal, and even cannot be caught with a seine. Fish breeding by default instead of by design. For the last decade or so, I’ve been breeding a “more catchable” strain of largemouth bass. Catchability is a trait in bass as well as in catfish. The trait is catchability and does not require inbreeding to bring it about. More catchable bass are better suited to the purpose. And a buncha other stuff, like blue catfish, and hybrid buffalo fish, and coppernose bluegills, and threadfin shad, and tilapia, and …. Anyhow, your point is well taken, I don’t breed longfins and don’t care for them. I do breed and sell. I don’t only care about “what sells”. I could make a great deal more money by converting about half of my facility into longfin production. A pond grade longfin sells for 300% more than a pond grade koi and is about the same cost to produce. There is a much bigger market for longfins in the US. If I were really only interested in breeding what sells, I’d be breeding only longfins. I wouldn’t have to compete with highly bred animals from 100 year old breeding farms. It would be ever so much less difficult for me with respect to finances. A feller from Texas doesn’t have to be Japanese to sell his longfin fish. Anybody can get a couple of longfins and raise a batch that will sell without having to sort and throw away most of the offspring. No judges out there setting standards, no large population of stunning individuals with which to compete, a much less difficult landscape than that for a Texas koi breeder. If it were only for the money, I’d have a farm full of longfins. But of course, I don’t know much about breeding, though. Brett
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Dont dis my fish!!! Ingrid List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List for care of goldfish go to http://puregold.aquaria.net/
I dont understand how someone can push Dandys fish and keep mutts ;P couldnt resist….. — Ken Arnold, ICQ # 1028648 KenCo Fish & Supplies Pond and Aquarium fish, Shipping plants/fish etc. a specialty Imported & domestic Koi,Goldfish,Orandas, Tropicals,exotics, Piranhas etc.
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But of course, I don’t know much about breeding, though. Meant breeders, but okay, if you say so. Corne1 Huth - http://40th.com/ Bullet database engines/servers 3.1 Win32-WinCE-OS2-Linux+
Makes more sense to me now. In that context, you are sadly correct in (most) of your assumptions. Brett
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They are deformed and fly in the face of true animal breeding
tenets. By definition, a breeder is working to improve the breed.
*** What do you mean exactly by deformed as it’s only the fins that are elongated. Propogating physical deformities does not fit that definition (for me). I feel very much the same about goldfish. *** I agree. Some GF are so deformed (body and fins) that they look like freaks and surely are a burden to themselves. The “breed anything for money” mentality doesn’t work well in horses,
dogs, or fish. *** It must work… look at all the dog breeds – talk about deformities! And the breeders find buyers. OTOH, I have seen one or two longfins that were atractive in thier
own way. But, they are not koi. Koi do not have long fins.
*** If they’re not koi what are they? They look like koi except for the fins. Aren’t they a cross between the long finned carp and the koi? Aren’t they fertile? They have thier place in the ornamental fish world, and are even beginning to show up with thier own category in koi shows. However, I’ve seen time and again, a longfin disqualified and
not be judged as a koi, because it is not one. *** I see. But to those of us not interested in shows or $5,000.00 koi for our ponds they are quite beautiful. Speaking only for myself, I like to watch them swim around my ponds. I’ve even had to be a longfin judge in the past at fish shows because
most certified judges will not judge them. *** Why? Couldn’t be “snobbery” could it? :O) I know they are popular in the US.
*** They’re VERY popular here in TN. In Japan, even the breeder that did the most to develop the breed has given up and sold his breeding stock a few years back. As far as I know, most longfins
are now only bred in the US where there seems to be a strong market.
*** Probably a market among the non show crowd such as myself, where health and beauty come before “what wins at the shows.” You won’t find any coming from my farm.
*** You’re in business… us every day ponders are not. I must admit, though, I have been experimenting with “normal” koi out of longfin lineage as breeding stock for stronger koi.
*** Sounds good… you’re adding new genes. Longfins are tough and grow fast and big, all good qualities which would be a benefit in koi. I’ve not been doing it long enough to see if it
might be working. *** I also like the BF’s slimmer build as it makes them appear even more graceful and elegant. The quality I’ve seen this year far surpasses what was avalible even 2 years ago. — Carol… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Brett
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If you waited to adopt BF koi here you better plan to live a few hundred years. — Carol… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Koi for money? I partake in the Jan Jordan Fish Adoption program.
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They are deformed and fly in the face of true animal breeding tenets. By definition, a breeder is working to improve the breed. *** What do you mean exactly by deformed as it’s only the fins that are elongated.
That is a deformity. You would not find such an animal surviving outside of captivity. Propogating physical deformities does not fit that definition (for me). I feel very much the same about goldfish. *** I agree. Some GF are so deformed (body and fins) that they look like freaks and surely are a burden to themselves.
They are. I like goldfish even less than longfins, with the exception of sarassa comets. I find them very attractive. The “breed anything for money” mentality doesn’t work well in horses, dogs, or fish. *** It must work… look at all the dog breeds – talk about deformities! And the breeders find buyers.
You’re right, it works well with respect to finances, not with respect to biology. How long is a “papillon” going to live outside of a climate controlled kennel (or home) without a highly regulated diet? Same is true for those “bulbous eyed” goldfish. The first osprey that comes along is going to have a hard choice between them. Probly catch and eat both in the same day. OTOH, I have seen one or two longfins that were atractive in thier own way. But, they are not koi. Koi do not have long fins. *** If they’re not koi what are they?
They are longfinned carp with colored bodies. They can’t be koi as they do not fit the requirements for the standards of the breed. Saying a longfinned carp is a koi is like saying donkey is a horse. They look like koi except for the fins. Aren’t they a cross between the long finned carp and the koi? Aren’t they fertile?
Yes to both counts. Still doesn’t make them a koi. You can say, “A koi is a carp, and a longfin is a carp, as far as it goes, so is a common carp.” You can’t say a common carp or a longfin is a koi. Longfins and koi are both common carps, or at least belong to the same genus and species as common carps (Cyprinus carpio). They have thier place in the ornamental fish world, and are even beginning to show up with thier own category in koi shows. However, I’ve seen time and again, a longfin disqualified and not be judged as a koi, because it is not one. *** I see. But to those of us not interested in shows or $5,000.00 koi for our ponds they are quite beautiful. Speaking only for myself, I like to watch them swim around my ponds.
I got no problem with that at all. I just say I wouldn’t like seeing them swimming around in my ponds. As to fish shows, I’ve many, many friends that show fish they bought from me and others, and win prizes, and payed as little as $30 for the fish. A quick tale. At one show a few years back I was asked, “what is the difference between the grand and reserve champions?” Both were very good kohaku. I knew the history behind both fish, one of them (the reserve champ, alas, was from my hatchery) the other from a famous Japanese hatchery. I thought a moment and told the person, “The difference is about $49,925.” The one fish had been purchased for $50K a few weeks before the show. The other from me for $75 three years earlier. I ask, “Who was the better fish keeper?” I’ve even had to be a longfin judge in the past at fish shows because most certified judges will not judge them. *** Why? Couldn’t be “snobbery” could it? :O)
Well…actually, a judge has the authority to DQ any animal which does not fulfill the requirments of the breed. You won’t find a dog judge judging a Heinz 57 as a poodle. Same is true in koi. The judge is only going to judge koi, he/she will not judge a striped bass or a longfin as a koi. I know they are popular in the US. *** They’re VERY popular here in TN. In Japan, even the breeder that did the most to develop the breed has given up and sold his breeding stock a few years back. As far as I know, most longfins are now only bred in the US where there seems to be a strong market. *** Probably a market among the non show crowd such as myself, where health and beauty come before “what wins at the shows.”
That is indeed the market for almost all koi. If I had to make my farm operate on the income from “show quality” fish it would have been out of business long ago. My customers are interested in health and beauty, also. You won’t find any coming from my farm. *** You’re in business… us every day ponders are not.
I keep telling myself that. My partner thinks we are BIG hobbiests. I must admit, though, I have been experimenting with “normal” koi out of longfin lineage as breeding stock for stronger koi. *** Sounds good… you’re adding new genes.
Always looking to breed a better, stronger animal. Like you say, “Health and beauty”, in that order. I see no point in trying to sell a fish so highly bred (and inbred) which looks remarkable, but anybody short of an expert can’t keep alive. I continue to try new things, some are my own ideas, some are those of my Japanese mentors. Longfins are tough and grow fast and big, all good qualities which would be a benefit in koi. I’ve not been doing it long enough to see if it might be working. *** I also like the BF’s slimmer build as it makes them appear even more graceful and elegant. The quality I’ve seen this year far surpasses what was avalible even 2 years ago.
Folks are getting to where a dull brown fish with long fins isn’t enough anymore. I’ve a friend in South Texas that breeds the most beautiful longfins I’ve seen. The problem for his stunning specimens is finding a proper market that will bear the price he must get for such specimens. If you think about it for a moment, longfins are primarily going into the “low end” market where fish must be priced inexpensively in order to sell. There are not many “longfin collectors” looking to purchase very high quality stock costing $hundreds or even thousands as there are in koi. He does like I do, enjoys his very best specimens himself as he has difficulty getting what they are worth (to him) from the market. Even good longfin shouldn’t be sold cheap. Brett – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text — Carol… Brett
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Warren – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Al…..you cut me to the bone……implying that I am full of the most commonly used word in the bass fishers vocabulary