Question:

I am looking for some information on Native Fish.catch largemouth bass  I am trying to set up a 75 gallon tank this winter.  Is there a newsgroup dedicated to Native Fish?  I have written away for a catolog on Native Fish.  It came in the mail this week.catch largemouth bass  The catolog stated how big the fish would get, and how much to buy them.  I need to know compatibility of the fish.  I would appreciate any information.  Thanks.

Response:

I am looking for some information on Native Fish.catch largemouth bass  I am trying to set up a 75 gallon tank this winter.  Is there a newsgroup dedicated to Native Fish?  I have written away for a catolog on Native Fish.  It came in the mail this week.  The catolog stated how big the fish would get, and how much to buy them.  I need to know compatibility of the fish.  I would appreciate any information.  Thanks.

Native to where?  Fresh water or marine?catch largemouth bass  Maybe you could try your local county extension office.  Is there a local pond or aquarist’s club in your area? Good luck.

Response:

I am looking for some information on Native Fish.  I am trying to set up a 75 gallon tank this winter.  Is there a newsgroup dedicated to Native Fish?  I have written away for a catolog on Native Fish.  It came in the mail this week.  The catolog stated how big the fish would get,catch largemouth bass and how much to buy them.  I need to know compatibility of the fish.  I would appreciate any information.  Thanks.

Jennifer,         You must remember that the internet and these newsgroups are worldwide (ie If you are from Brazil, Discus angelfish and Neon tetras are Native fish) I assume you are in North america.   I have not seen much on the net about native fish of north america.catch largemouth bass  My suggestion would be to go to a bookstore and look at a fishing magazine to get info about the native habitats of the fish you are thinking about keeping then try to replicate the habitats. Have Fun Darin

Response:

I am looking for some information on Native Fish.  I am trying to set up a 75 gallon tank this winter.  Is there a newsgroup dedicated to Native Fish?  I have written away for a catolog on Native Fish.  It came in the mail this week.  The catolog stated how big the fish would get, and how much to buy them.  I need to know compatibility of the fish.  I would appreciate any information.  Thanks.

I don’t know of a new group but their is a List Serv called NANF.catch largemouth bass  There isn’t a lot of traffic, but the next time something comes through I will try to get you together with them. — Carl –=+ –=+ –=+ –=+ –=+ –=+ –=+ –=+ –=+ –=+ –=+ –=+ –=+ –=+ Colstrip, MT  59323-0008 | 406.748.3230         |      Stamp Material –=+ –=+ –=+ –=+ –=+ –=+ –=+ –=+ –=+ –=+ –=+ –=+ –=+ –=+

Response:

Assuming you’re talking about North American fish, which fish are you I am looking for some information on Native Fish.  I am trying to set up a 75 gallon tank this winter.  Is there a newsgroup dedicated to Native Fish?  I have written away for a catolog on Native Fish.  It came in the mail this week.  The catolog stated how big the fish would get, and how much to buy them.  I need to know compatibility of the fish.catch largemouth bass  I would appreciate any information.  Thanks

Which fish were you considering? There are hundreds of North American native fish, and many can be kept in the home aquarium.catch largemouth bass Darters, minnows, sunfish, bass, crappie, perches, the list goes on.

Response:

Most mid west natives, at least the common ones suck as pike, pumpkin seeds and bass will quickly out grow a 75 gallon tank, especially bass and pike as they are extremely territorial. Some of the lesser minnows could be kept, but with all of them, water conditions, especially temps are a problem.catch largemouth bass Most species in my region are cold water and the use of a chiller would be neccessary to keep in them in optimal conditions.

Response:

(Jennifer Major) writes: I am looking for some information on Native Fish.  I am trying to set up a 75 gallon tank this winter.  Is there a newsgroup dedicated to Native Fish?  I have written away for a catolog on Native Fish.  It came in the mail this week.  The catolog stated how big the fish would get, and how much to buy them.  I need to know compatibility of the fish.  I would appreciate any information.  Thanks. Jennifer

Jennifer, I wrote an article on keeping native fish in aquaria for Honey Hole Magazine (a Texas bass fishing publication) about a year or so ago.  I have kept both fresh and marine species native to North America in aquaria.  I’m assuming your talking American Natives here.  Of course the peacock bass behind me here in my computer room are natives in South America.  Anyway, you should check on the legality of keeping native fish captive with your state’s DNR or equivalent regulatory authority.  Also the legality of collecting your own fish from  lakes, streams, ditches, etc. Half the fun of keeping the fish is collecting them.  I use a cast net, a minnow seine, dip net, and fish traps to collect with.  You also need an aerated bait box or bucket for transport.  Also you might be able to buy fingerlings from a private hatchery.  You will need to learn the life history and needs such as water quality and type of foods for your charges, all very fun and interesting.  Here is a list of species I have found to do well in aquaria; Freshwater; Largemouth bass, bluegill sunfish, longear sunfish, green sunfish, longnose gar, alligator gar, spotted gar, hybrid striped bass, channel catfish, blue catfish, bullhead catfish, madtom catfish, bowfin, golden shiner, fathead minnow, common carp, red shiner, redear slider turtle, common snapper, alligator snapper, softshell turtle, siren (Amphiuma), ghost shrimp, red swamp crawfish, white crawfish, who knows what else. difficult but possible freshwater species; white and black crappie, redear sunfish, gizzard shad, pirate perch, log perch, Saltwater species; Red drum, pinfish, seargent major, barber pole shrimp, other shrinmps, crabs, sea cucumbers, nudibranchs, mullet, ??? Hope this is useful, e-mail to me if you would like more info, Brett Rowley Fisheries Biologist Great Lakes Sportfishing Resort and Koi Breeding Farm West Columbia, Texas http://waterscapes.com

Response:

I am looking for some information on Native Fish.

<snip NANFA is North American Native Fishes Association. Keep your eyes on some of these newsgroups you posted on, as the organization posts a FAQ or two every month. What I got on them out of most recent FAMA: dues: US, Can & Mex – $15(US)/year. elsewhere: $17(US). For further info, contact: Bruce Gebhardt 123 W Mount Airy Ave, Philadelphia, PA 19119  Jay Exner  -  Allentown – PA – USA  http://www.users.fast.net/~jayexner

Response:

In regards to native fish, There was a nice article on sunfish about a year ago in either FAMA or AFM.  It talked about care and a little about breeding.  Hope it helps. Eric

Response:

I am looking for some information on Native Fish.  I am trying to set up a 75 gallon tank this winter.  Is there a newsgroup dedicated to Native Fish?  I have written away for a catolog on Native Fish.  It came in the mail this week.  The catolog stated how big the fish would get, and how much to buy them.  I need to know compatibility of the fish.  I would appreciate any information.  Thanks. Jennifer

Response:

I am looking for some information on Native Fish.  I am trying to set up a 75 gallon tank this winter.  Is there a newsgroup dedicated to Native Fish?  I have written away for a catolog on Native Fish.  It came in the mail this week.  The catolog stated how big the fish would get, and how much to buy them.  I need to know compatibility of the fish.  I would appreciate any information.  Thanks. Jennifer

Native to where?  Fresh water or marine?  Maybe you could try your local county extension office.  Is there a local pond or aquarist’s club in your area? Good luck.

Response:

I am looking for some information on Native Fish.  I am trying to set up a 75 gallon tank this winter.  Is there a newsgroup dedicated to Native Fish?  I have written away for a catolog on Native Fish.  It came in the mail this week.  The catolog stated how big the fish would get, and how much to buy them.  I need to know compatibility of the fish.  I would appreciate any information.  Thanks. Jennifer

Jennifer,         You must remember that the internet and these newsgroups are worldwide (ie If you are from Brazil, Discus angelfish and Neon tetras are Native fish) I assume you are in North america.   I have not seen much on the net about native fish of north america.  My suggestion would be to go to a bookstore and look at a fishing magazine to get info about the native habitats of the fish you are thinking about keeping then try to replicate the habitats. Have Fun Darin

Response:

I am looking for some information on Native Fish.  I am trying to set up a 75 gallon tank this winter.  Is there a newsgroup dedicated to Native Fish?  I have written away for a catolog on Native Fish.  It came in the mail this week.  The catolog stated how big the fish would get, and how much to buy them.  I need to know compatibility of the fish.  I would appreciate any information.  Thanks.

I don’t know of a new group but their is a List Serv called NANF.  There isn’t a lot of traffic, but the next time something comes through I will try to get you together with them. — Carl –=+ –=+ –=+ –=+ –=+ –=+ –=+ –=+ –=+ –=+ –=+ –=+ –=+ –=+ Colstrip, MT  59323-0008 | 406.748.3230         |      Stamp Material –=+ –=+ –=+ –=+ –=+ –=+ –=+ –=+ –=+ –=+ –=+ –=+ –=+ –=+

Response:

Assuming you’re talking about North American fish, which fish are you I am looking for some information on Native Fish.  I am trying to set up a 75 gallon tank this winter.  Is there a newsgroup dedicated to Native Fish?  I have written away for a catolog on Native Fish.  It came in the mail this week.  The catolog stated how big the fish would get, and how much to buy them.  I need to know compatibility of the fish.  I would appreciate any information.  Thanks. Jennifer

Which fish were you considering? There are hundreds of North American native fish, and many can be kept in the home aquarium. Darters, minnows, sunfish, bass, crappie, perches, the list goes on.                                                 Bootzy

Response:

Most mid west natives, at least the common ones suck as pike, pumpkin seeds and bass will quickly out grow a 75 gallon tank, especially bass and pike as they are extremely territorial. Some of the lesser minnows could be kept, but with all of them, water conditions, especially temps are a problem. Most species in my region are cold water and the use of a chiller would be neccessary to keep in them in optimal conditions.

Response:

(Jennifer Major) writes: I am looking for some information on Native Fish.  I am trying to set up a 75 gallon tank this winter.  Is there a newsgroup dedicated to Native Fish?  I have written away for a catolog on Native Fish.  It came in the mail this week.  The catolog stated how big the fish would get, and how much to buy them.  I need to know compatibility of the fish.  I would appreciate any information.  Thanks. Jennifer

Jennifer, I wrote an article on keeping native fish in aquaria for Honey Hole Magazine (a Texas bass fishing publication) about a year or so ago.  I have kept both fresh and marine species native to North America in aquaria.  I’m assuming your talking American Natives here.  Of course the peacock bass behind me here in my computer room are natives in South America.  Anyway, you should check on the legality of keeping native fish captive with your state’s DNR or equivalent regulatory authority.  Also the legality of collecting your own fish from  lakes, streams, ditches, etc. Half the fun of keeping the fish is collecting them.  I use a cast net, a minnow seine, dip net, and fish traps to collect with.  You also need an aerated bait box or bucket for transport.  Also you might be able to buy fingerlings from a private hatchery.  You will need to learn the life history and needs such as water quality and type of foods for your charges, all very fun and interesting.  Here is a list of species I have found to do well in aquaria; Freshwater; Largemouth bass, bluegill sunfish, longear sunfish, green sunfish, longnose gar, alligator gar, spotted gar, hybrid striped bass, channel catfish, blue catfish, bullhead catfish, madtom catfish, bowfin, golden shiner, fathead minnow, common carp, red shiner, redear slider turtle, common snapper, alligator snapper, softshell turtle, siren (Amphiuma), ghost shrimp, red swamp crawfish, white crawfish, who knows what else. difficult but possible freshwater species; white and black crappie, redear sunfish, gizzard shad, pirate perch, log perch, Saltwater species; Red drum, pinfish, seargent major, barber pole shrimp, other shrinmps, crabs, sea cucumbers, nudibranchs, mullet, ??? Hope this is useful, e-mail to me if you would like more info, Brett Rowley Fisheries Biologist Great Lakes Sportfishing Resort and Koi Breeding Farm West Columbia, Texas http://waterscapes.com

Response:

I am looking for some information on Native Fish.

<snip NANFA is North American Native Fishes Association. Keep your eyes on some of these newsgroups you posted on, as the organization posts a FAQ or two every month. What I got on them out of most recent FAMA: dues: US, Can & Mex – $15(US)/year. elsewhere: $17(US). For further info, contact: Bruce Gebhardt 123 W Mount Airy Ave, Philadelphia, PA 19119  Jay Exner  -  Allentown – PA – USA  http://www.users.fast.net/~jayexner

Response:

In regards to native fish, There was a nice article on sunfish about a year ago in either FAMA or AFM.  It talked about care and a little about breeding.  Hope it helps. Eric

Response:

Question:

Well, spring is coming,smallmouth largemouth bass and this weekend, I will most likely be pumping out the melted snow from my pond, raking etc. This is all in preparation for expanding my current size from 1000 to 3000, and adding a watercourse from some rockwork to the waterfall. I tend to lean towards more informal natural styling, so it’s off to my favorite abandoned quarry for more limestone, a lot more limestone.smallmouth largemouth bass I have already ordered the new liner and will use the old one for the water course, and my filter set up from the previous year will be more than sufficient, so as I look out the front window, the thought of breaking my back moving dirt and rock for a month brings back bitter sweet memories, but then the evenings spent sitting on my deck watching the local wildlife come to play makes up for it all. This is the fifth year of pond keeping for me, and few lessons I have learned might be of interest to others just starting out. So here goes: 1) If at all possible, set up a bottom drain, with an inline pre-filter. This is an extremely effective method of keeping debris off the bottom, especially if you have a have gentle slope to the drain. The pre-filter will save your pump. 2) Keep chemical usage at a minimum. It will cause unstable water conditions that will do more harm than good.smallmouth largemouth bass If a product has warnings about use in public waters, don’t use it at all. Strive instead to balance your miniature eco system and eventually, it will become very little work to maintain it. 3) Wildlife will find your pond, snakes, racoons etc. If you follow my philosophy, these creatures will be welcome.  Throw some crayfish, “feeder” goldfish in occasionally, and you will find your prized stock left unmolested. And if you can’t find enjoyment in the antics of a few racoons splashing around in your pond, then hey, lighten up. 4) I prefer to keep natives in my pond (being from Iowa, they are easier to keep) and if you are just beginning, you will find them to be hardy and depending on the species kept, quite colorful. My current stock includes four pumpkin seeds ablaze with irradescent rainbows that put any koi to shame, a small pike (a beautifultiger striped predator) and one 4 1/2 pound largemouth bass. I bought breeder stock from a local fishery except for smallmouth largemouth bass the pike which was bought a an aquarist shop and my total investment was less than $50.00 and I find I can keep my pond up longer in the fall than I could with koi. Now as a side note, I have watched with great amusement the raging (???) debate of a few photographs, pond related. Contrary to what some may believe, this not purely a discussion group, it is an OPEN forum for the exchange of information concerning ponds, including graphics ie photos or drawings. It would seem the majority of the dissenters are those who download every new article posted to this group. To those people, Iwould say don’t be a fool. Besides getting postings you might not want,smallmouth largemouth bass  you leave yourself open to thepossibility of downloading something that could quite possibly be harmful to your machine, and even illegal. Not knowing what you are downloading is no no excuse for complaining when you get something you don’t want. And if you don’t know how to set your software to avoid binary postings, that is not the fault of those who post pictures of their gardens to this group. Moreover, in as much as it is appropriate to post other than text only files here, I will, in the course of contsruction, be posting such photos as I deem necessary to illustrate my points. Antone who feels it their duty to critcise mr for this might as well know,smallmouth largemouth bass I do not take kindly to lamers who think they know it all when flaming people. I have been out here on the net for many years, even before usenet was conceived and I can tell you this, I can play games with the best of them, and I never lose. So grow up, quit complaing and lets get on with this group’s mission, the promotion of pond keeping.

Response:

Now as a side note, I have watched with great amusement the raging (???) debate of a few photographs, pond related. Contrary to what some may believe, this not purely a discussion group, it is an OPEN forum for the exchange of information concerning ponds, including graphics ie photos or drawings. It would seem the majority of the dissenters are those who download every new article posted to this group. To those people, Iwould say don’t be a fool. Besides getting postings you might not want, you leave yourself open to thepossibility of downloading something that could quite possibly be harmful to your machine, and even illegal. Not knowing what you are downloading is no no excuse for complaining when you get something you don’t want. And if you don’t know how to set your software to avoid binary postings, that is not the fault of those who post pictures of their gardens to this group. Moreover, in as much as it is appropriate to post other than text only files here, I will, in the course of contsruction, be posting such photos as I deem necessary to illustrate my points. Antone who feels it their duty to critcise mr for this might as well know, I do not take kindly to lamers who think they know it all when flaming people. I have been out here on the net for many years, even before usenet was conceived and I can tell you this, I can play games with the best of them, and I never lose. So grow up, quit complaing and lets get on with this group’s mission, the promotion of pond keeping.

Sigh … this topic always seems to come up.  And it always turns into a battle between the haves and the have nots.  I unfortunately happen to be one of the many have nots.  There are many of us that are not on the ’superexpress way’ of the net, rather more like the backroads.  I, and I am sure many others, do not get unlimited cheap access to the internet.  I, and I am sure many others, pay quite dearly for access to the internet and for telephone services.  Unless I move to where the above poster lives, I don’t really have a choice in this matter.  Nor do I want to double my time and effort to preview headers for the groups that I wish to read. Since you have used the net for so many years, surely you must know of the convention that will most likely please everyone concerned.  A person with an interesting picture/sound clip/etc can post said article into the appropriate general binary group and leave a pointer to that information on the group itself.  Then those of you ‘usenet wizards’ that wish to see such pictures, can busily suck them down your 50 gazillion bytes per second pipeline on your 90 katrillion MHz Cray.  Us mere mortals, or those not interested in the pictures can happily read the posts.  It would seem that both parties will be happy, no?  Why is this such a difficult concept?

Response:

Now as a side note, I have watched with great amusement the raging (???) debate of a few photographs, pond related. Contrary to what some may believe, this not purely a discussion group, it is an OPEN forum for the exchange of information concerning ponds, including graphics ie photos or drawings. It would seem the majority of the dissenters are those who download every new article posted to this group. To those people, Iwould say don’t be a fool. Besides getting postings you might not want, you leave yourself open to thepossibility of downloading something that could quite possibly be harmful to your machine, and even illegal. Not knowing what you are downloading is no no excuse for complaining when you get something you don’t want. And if you don’t know how to set your software to avoid binary postings, that is not the fault of those who post pictures of their gardens to this group. Moreover, in as much as it is appropriate to post other than text only files here, I will, in the course of contsruction, be posting such photos as I deem necessary to illustrate my points. Antone who feels it their duty to critcise mr for this might as well know, I do not take kindly to lamers who think they know it all when flaming people. I have been out here on the net for many years, even before usenet was conceived and I can tell you this, I can play games with the best of them, and I never lose. So grow up, quit complaing and lets get on with this group’s mission, the promotion of pond keeping. Sigh … this topic always seems to come up.  And it always turns into a battle between the haves and the have nots.  I unfortunately happen to be one of the many have nots.  There are many of us that are not on the ’superexpress way’ of the net, rather more like the backroads.  I, and I am sure many others, do not get unlimited cheap access to the internet.  I, and I am sure many others, pay quite dearly for access to the internet and for telephone services.  Unless I move to where the above poster lives, I don’t really have a choice in this matter.  Nor do I want to double my time and effort to preview headers for the groups that I wish to read. Since you have used the net for so many years, surely you must know of the convention that will most likely please everyone concerned.  A person with an interesting picture/sound clip/etc can post said article into the appropriate general binary group and leave a pointer to that information on the group itself.  Then those of you ‘usenet wizards’ that wish to see such pictures, can busily suck them down your 50 gazillion bytes per second pipeline on your 90 katrillion MHz Cray.  Us mere mortals, or those not interested in the pictures can happily read the posts.  It would seem that both parties will be happy, no?  Why is this such a difficult concept?

Concept ??.  I read the header (it took about 2 seconds), it stated ‘The Ribet Method– The pictures I promised’ mypond.jpg.. I think you could have  figured these were ” pictures “.. I think the your phrase ..” .Nor do I want to double my time and effort to preview headers for the groups that I wish to read.” explains what the problem is to you it may be to much effort, but I myself enjoyed the pictures and didn’t mind taking the effort to download them…

Response:

What kind of liner did you decide on?smallmouth largemouth bass We also have mud bottom ponds, and like the wildlife and so on. Mostly, because we’re in town, we get possums and lots of birds. We’re on the major flight way and get a lot of seasonals. We also keep natives in our pond. We use them like canaries for the water quality problems we experience. They are more sensitive than koi to water quality changes, like pH, chlorine and mineral content, less sensitive to heat and more gradual changes. Thanks

Response:

Concept ??.  I read the header (it took about 2 seconds), it stated ‘The Ribet Method– The pictures I promised’ mypond.jpg.. I think you could have  figured these were ” pictures “.. I think the your phrase ..” .Nor do I want to double my time and effort to preview headers for the groups that I wish to read.” explains what the problem is to you it may be to much effort, but I myself enjoyed the pictures and didn’t mind taking the effort to download them…

Yes there is no doubt in this case that the files in question are pictures. My point is why should everyone have to preview their news so that a minority (?) of people that are interested in the pictures are not inconvenienced.  I subscribe to about 20 or 30 newsgroups, some that are heavily posted, some that aren’t (and I realize that rec.ponds is not a high traffic group).  It would be a real bother to have to preview all these newsgroups to get something that is interesting to me. Even with a lot of the technical groups, the noise to signal ratio is rather obnoxiously high.  And even with a killfile it can take an obscene amount of time to killfile certain groups. If I do do this previewing as you propose, that means I get to call up my ISP twice plus spend time previewing the headers for interesting posts … yes a fantastic use of my time and my money.  Compare this to the slight inconvenience to those that want the pictures … click (because I’m supposing that they’re fortunate enought to be able to be (semi)permanently jacked online for a trifling amount) to another newsgroup, look for the post and download it.  I imagine anyone that is willing to spend 10-15 minutes downloading these megabytes of pictures is willing to spend another couple of minutes looking them up. Please look at the consequences.  Your proposal practically dictates that everyone preview their news.  I propose that only those that are interested in the binaries spend a few more minutes to get them.  Your proposal penalizes anyone that is not hooked into the net cheaply.  My proposal penalizes those that are likely able to afford the inconvenience of looking for the pretty pictures.  If the majority of people on this newsgroup want the pretty pictures then I stand corrected.  But this newsgroup has been doing just peachy for the last year or so with the paucity of pictures.

Response:

Well, spring is coming, and this weekend, I will most likely be pumping out the melted snow from my pond, raking etc. This is all in preparation for expanding my current size from 1000 to 3000, and adding a watercourse from some rockwork to the waterfall. I tend to lean towards more informal natural styling, so it’s off to my favorite abandoned quarry for more limestone, a lot more limestone. I have already ordered the new liner and will use the old one for the water course, and my filter set up from the previous year will be more than sufficient, so as I look out the front window, the thought of breaking my back moving dirt and rock for a month brings back bitter sweet memories, but then the evenings spent sitting on my deck watching the local wildlife come to play makes up for it all. This is the fifth year of pond keeping for me, and few lessons I have learned might be of interest to others just starting out. So here goes: 1) If at all possible, set up a bottom drain, with an inline pre-filter. This is an extremely effective method of keeping debris off the bottom, especially if you have a have gentle slope to the drain. The pre-filter will save your pump. 2) Keep chemical usage at a minimum. It will cause unstable water conditions that will do more harm than good. If a product has warnings about use in public waters, don’t use it at all. Strive instead to balance your miniature eco system and eventually, it will become very little work to maintain it. 3) Wildlife will find your pond, snakes, racoons etc. If you follow my philosophy, these creatures will be welcome.  Throw some crayfish, “feeder” goldfish in occasionally, and you will find your prized stock left unmolested. And if you can’t find enjoyment in the antics of a few racoons splashing around in your pond, then hey, lighten up. 4) I prefer to keep natives in my pond (being from Iowa, they are easier to keep) and if you are just beginning, you will find them to be hardy and depending on the species kept, quite colorful. My current stock includes four pumpkin seeds ablaze with irradescent rainbows that put any koi to shame, a small pike (a beautifultiger striped predator) and one 4 1/2 pound largemouth bass. I bought breeder stock from a local fishery except for the pike which was bought a an aquarist shop and my total investment was less than $50.00 and I find I can keep my pond up longer in the fall than I could with koi. Now as a side note, I have watched with great amusement the raging (???) debate of a few photographs, pond related. Contrary to what some may believe, this not purely a discussion group, it is an OPEN forum for the exchange of information concerning ponds, including graphics ie photos or drawings. It would seem the majority of the dissenters are those who download every new article posted to this group. To those people, Iwould say don’t be a fool. Besides getting postings you might not want, you leave yourself open to thepossibility of downloading something that could quite possibly be harmful to your machine, and even illegal. Not knowing what you are downloading is no no excuse for complaining when you get something you don’t want. And if you don’t know how to set your software to avoid binary postings, that is not the fault of those who post pictures of their gardens to this group. Moreover, in as much as it is appropriate to post other than text only files here, I will, in the course of contsruction, be posting such photos as I deem necessary to illustrate my points. Antone who feels it their duty to critcise mr for this might as well know, I do not take kindly to lamers who think they know it all when flaming people. I have been out here on the net for many years, even before usenet was conceived and I can tell you this, I can play games with the best of them, and I never lose. So grow up, quit complaing and lets get on with this group’s mission, the promotion of pond keeping.

Response:

Now as a side note, I have watched with great amusement the raging (???) debate of a few photographs, pond related. Contrary to what some may believe, this not purely a discussion group, it is an OPEN forum for the exchange of information concerning ponds, including graphics ie photos or drawings. It would seem the majority of the dissenters are those who download every new article posted to this group. To those people, Iwould say don’t be a fool. Besides getting postings you might not want, you leave yourself open to thepossibility of downloading something that could quite possibly be harmful to your machine, and even illegal. Not knowing what you are downloading is no no excuse for complaining when you get something you don’t want. And if you don’t know how to set your software to avoid binary postings, that is not the fault of those who post pictures of their gardens to this group. Moreover, in as much as it is appropriate to post other than text only files here, I will, in the course of contsruction, be posting such photos as I deem necessary to illustrate my points. Antone who feels it their duty to critcise mr for this might as well know, I do not take kindly to lamers who think they know it all when flaming people. I have been out here on the net for many years, even before usenet was conceived and I can tell you this, I can play games with the best of them, and I never lose. So grow up, quit complaing and lets get on with this group’s mission, the promotion of pond keeping.

Sigh … this topic always seems to come up.  And it always turns into a battle between the haves and the have nots.  I unfortunately happen to be one of the many have nots.  There are many of us that are not on the ’superexpress way’ of the net, rather more like the backroads.smallmouth largemouth bass  I, and I am sure many others, do not get unlimited cheap access to the internet.  I, and I am sure many others, pay quite dearly for access to the internet and for telephone services.  Unless I move to where the above poster lives, I don’t really have a choice in this matter.  Nor do I want to double my time and effort to preview headers for the groups that I wish to read. Since you have used the net for so many years, surely you must know of the convention that will most likely please everyone concerned.  A person with an interesting picture/sound clip/etc can post said article into the appropriate general binary group and leave a pointer to that information on the group itself.  Then those of you ‘usenet wizards’ that wish to see such pictures, can busily suck them down your 50 gazillion bytes per second pipeline on your 90 katrillion MHz Cray.  Us mere mortals, or those not interested in the pictures can happily read the posts.  It would seem that both parties will be happy, no?  Why is this such a difficult concept?

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Now as a side note, I have watched with great amusement the raging (???) debate of a few photographs, pond related. Contrary to what some may believe, this not purely a discussion group, it is an OPEN forum for the exchange of information concerning ponds, including graphics ie photos or drawings. It would seem the majority of the dissenters are those who download every new article posted to this group. To those people, Iwould say don’t be a fool. Besides getting postings you might not want, you leave yourself open to thepossibility of downloading something that could quite possibly be harmful to your machine, and even illegal. Not knowing what you are downloading is no no excuse for complaining when you get something you don’t want. And if you don’t know how to set your software to avoid binary postings, that is not the fault of those who post pictures of their gardens to this group. Moreover, in as much as it is appropriate to post other than text only files here, I will, in the course of contsruction, be posting such photos as I deem necessary to illustrate my points. Antone who feels it their duty to critcise mr for this might as well know, I do not take kindly to lamers who think they know it all when flaming people. I have been out here on the net for many years, even before usenet was conceived and I can tell you this, I can play games with the best of them, and I never lose. So grow up, quit complaing and lets get on with this group’s mission, the promotion of pond keeping. Sigh … this topic always seems to come up.  And it always turns into a battle between the haves and the have nots.  I unfortunately happen to be one of the many have nots.  There are many of us that are not on the ’superexpress way’ of the net, rather more like the backroads.  I, and I am sure many others, do not get unlimited cheap access to the internet.  I, and I am sure many others, pay quite dearly for access to the internet and for telephone services.  Unless I move to where the above poster lives, I don’t really have a choice in this matter.  Nor do I want to double my time and effort to preview headers for the groups that I wish to read. Since you have used the net for so many years, surely you must know of the convention that will most likely please everyone concerned.  A person with an interesting picture/sound clip/etc can post said article into the appropriate general binary group and leave a pointer to that information on the group itself.  Then those of you ‘usenet wizards’ that wish to see such pictures, can busily suck them down your 50 gazillion bytes per second pipeline on your 90 katrillion MHz Cray.  Us mere mortals, or those not interested in the pictures can happily read the posts.  It would seem that both parties will be happy, no?  Why is this such a difficult concept?

Concept ??.  I read the header (it took about 2 seconds), it stated ‘The Ribet Method– The pictures I promised’ mypond.jpg.. I think you could have  figured these were ” pictures “.. I think the your phrase ..” .Nor do I want to double my time and effort to preview headers for the groups that I wish to read.” explains what the problem is to you it may be to much effort, but I myself enjoyed the pictures and didn’t mind taking the effort to download them…

Response:

What kind of liner did you decide on? We also have mud bottom ponds, and like the wildlife and so on. Mostly, because we’re in town, we get possums and lots of birds. We’re on the major flight way and get a lot of seasonals. We also keep natives in our pond. We use them like canaries for the water quality problems we experience. They are more sensitive than koi to water quality changes, like pH, chlorine and mineral content, less sensitive to heat and more gradual changes. Thanks for the note. -SR

Response:

Concept ??.  I read the header (it took about 2 seconds), it stated ‘The Ribet Method– The pictures I promised’ mypond.jpg.. I think you could have  figured these were ” pictures “.. I think the your phrase ..” .Nor do I want to double my time and effort to preview headers for the groups that I wish to read.” explains what the problem is to you it may be to much effort, but I myself enjoyed the pictures and didn’t mind taking the effort to download them…

Yes there is no doubt in this case that the files in question are pictures. My point is why should everyone have to preview their news so that a minority (?) of people that are interested in the pictures are not inconvenienced.  I subscribe to about 20 or 30 newsgroups, some that are heavily posted, some that aren’t (and I realize that rec.ponds is not a high traffic group).  It would be a real bother to have to preview all these newsgroups to get something that is interesting to me. Even with a lot of the technical groups, the noise to signal ratio is rather obnoxiously high.  And even with a killfile it can take an obscene amount of time to killfile certain groups. If I do do this previewing as you propose, that means I get to call up my ISP twice plus spend time previewing the headers for interesting posts … yes a fantastic use of my time and my money.  Compare this to the slight inconvenience to those that want the pictures … click (because I’m supposing that they’re fortunate enought to be able to be (semi)permanently jacked online for a trifling amount) to another newsgroup, look for the post and download it.  I imagine anyone that is willing to spend 10-15 minutes downloading these megabytes of pictures is willing to spend another couple of minutes looking them up. Please look at the consequences.  Your proposal practically dictates that everyone preview their news.  I propose that only those that are interested in the binaries spend a few more minutes to get them.  Your proposal penalizes anyone that is not hooked into the net cheaply.  My proposal penalizes those that are likely able to afford the inconvenience of looking for the pretty pictures.  If the majority of people on this newsgroup want the pretty pictures then I stand corrected.  But this newsgroup has been doing just peachy for the last year or so with the paucity of pictures.

Response:

Question:

Catfish would be a great addition,largemouth bass stocking they are bottom dwellers and create a great source of pest clean up since they are meat eaters.largemouth bass stocking I have a 3 acre farm pond on a formerly working farm in southern Virginia that supports largemouth bass, brim, bluegill, turtles, a blue heron, ducks passing through, and infrequent visits from a river otter. My questions: Any negative impact on the pond ecology/structure by introducing catfish? Any benefits? Do they reproduce?  If not, then why not? What kind are preferred?largemouth bass stocking  Why? Thanks in advance

Response:

I have a 3 acre farm pond on largemouth bass stocking a formerly working farm in southern Virginia that supports largemouth bass, brim, bluegill, turtles, a blue heron, ducks passing through, and infrequent visits from a river otter. My questions: Any negative impact on the pond ecology/structure by introducing catfish? Any benefits? Do they reproduce?  If not, then why not? What kind are preferred?  Why? Thanks in advance

Response:

I have a 3 acre farm pond on a formerly working farm in southern Virginia that supports largemouth bass, brim, bluegill, turtles, a blue heron, ducks passing through, and infrequent visits from a river otter. My questions: Any negative impact on the pond ecologylargemouth bass stocking/structure by introducing catfish?

Not unless you overstock, then problems will arise.  Stocking density for channel and/or blue catfish in such a pond should be no more than 200 per acre. Any benefits?

Sure, catfish are good to catch and eat.largemouth bass stocking  If you feed them, the nutrients added to the pond will make it more fertile. Do they reproduce?

They might lay eggs, recruitment of catfish in such ponds is very low.   If not, then why not? The other fish in the pond will eat thier eggs and fry.  Catfish are usually spawned in “clean” (no other fish) ponds and the eggs gathered daily to be incubated in the lab. What kind are preferred?

I love the blue catfish (Ictaluris furcatus).  Why? Grows faster, gets bigger, doesn’t stir the pond up, eats anything, makes the best “sporting” catfish, looks beautiful, a better fish any way you want to compare.  Hard to find, though.  Most hatcheries produce the inferior channel catfish (Ictaluris punctatus).   Best of luck, Brett – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Thanks in advance

Response:

Catfish would be a great addition, they are bottom dwellers and create a great source of pest clean up since they are meat eaters. Jon

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have a 3 acre farm pond on a formerly working farm in southern Virginia that supports largemouth bass, brim, bluegill, turtles, a blue heron, ducks passing through, and infrequent visits from a river otter. My questions: Any negative impact on the pond ecology/structure by introducing catfish? Any benefits? Do they reproduce?  If not, then why not? What kind are preferred?  Why? Thanks in advance

Response:

I have a 3 acre farm pond on a formerly working farm in southern Virginia that supports largemouth bass, brim, bluegill, turtles, a blue heron, ducks passing through, and infrequent visits from a river otter. My questions: Any negative impact on the pond ecology/structure by introducing catfish? Any benefits? Do they reproduce?  If not, then why not? What kind are preferred?  Why? Thanks in advance

Response:

I have a 3 acre farm pond on a formerly working farm in southern Virginia that supports largemouth bass, brim, bluegill, turtles, a blue heron, ducks passing through, and infrequent visits from a river otter. My questions: Any negative impact on the pond ecology/structure by introducing catfish?

Not unless you overstock, then problems will arise.  Stocking density for channel and/or blue catfish in such a pond should be no more than 200 per acre. Any benefits?

Sure, catfish are good to catch and eat.  If you feed them, the nutrients added to the pond will make it more fertile. Do they reproduce?

They might lay eggs, recruitment of catfish in such ponds is very low.   If not, then why not? The other fish in the pond will eat thier eggs and fry.  Catfish are usually spawned in “clean” (no other fish) ponds and the eggs gathered daily to be incubated in the lab. What kind are preferred?

I love the blue catfish (Ictaluris furcatus).  Why? Grows faster, gets bigger, doesn’t stir the pond up, eats anything, makes the best “sporting” catfish, looks beautiful, a better fish any way you want to compare.  Hard to find, though.  Most hatcheries produce the inferior channel catfish (Ictaluris punctatus).   Best of luck, Brett – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Thanks in advance

Response:

Question:

So,largemouth bass fishing if ‘juicing’ a deer doesn’t work, why would B & C or any scoring organization want to tissue test deer? I believe that some of the reasoning behind tissue testing is to make sure

there is no chance of the deer being a black-tail hybrid.largemouth bass fishing  I have seen where very large deer have been disqualified because it was discovered that they were a “mix-breed.” Visit the rec.hunting and rec.hunting.dogs FAQ Home Page at:

Response:

I’m sure there IS literature out there about how GH increases antler mass, but who wrote it? largemouth bass fishing I e-mailed the world’s formost expert on antler development, George A. Bubenik, of the Dept. of Zoology at the University of the giant antlers (of the Rompola buck) are the result of some steroid brew.  Is there any validity to these speculations?”  His reply: “Sure, there are some promising treatments on the drawing board,largemouth bass fishing but so far I am not aware of ANYTHING PRACTICAL at this time.”

Albeit you’ve contacted a reputable zoologist, all one needs to do here is read is reply to deduce that there certainly MAY WELL BE antler enhancing supplements out there. There are literally dozens of companies selling ‘diet supplements’ that ‘enhance antler mass’. Clearly some are gimmics …… but just maybe …..largemouth bass fishing.. This tissue testing DOES NOT occur now.  I was referring to others’ suggestions that maybe B&C SHOULD do it in the future to make sure all their record book animals are pure.

Ah ….. so we agree on this concept ! The suggestion is hardly naive.  It’s naive to believe simply testing an animal’s tissues would prove it’s juiced, because the ‘juice’ may have been ingested ‘innocently’.

course would have to be a standard,largemouth bass fishing or a norm, established ……. but that shouldn’t be terribly difficult. again from an expert (an antler replicator who has copied most of the world’s biggest racks), Hmmmm……. so would this ‘artist’ be a molecular biologist, a vertebrate biologist, and an ungulate biologist all wrapped up in one ???? You snipped this out of context and combined two sentences.  This destroys the original point, and thus your question is nonsensical.

See above. My ‘context’ was taken from ONE (1) of your sentences (it’s still there, in b&w). The question is not nonsensical ……. and what WAS your original point ? No kidding – all deer rub their antlers?  Wild deer rarely (if ever) rub their antlers on ANYTHING which would cause scoring of the bone. Pen raised bucks ALWAYS DO, rub on steel wire fences and score their tines that

is. Likely a function of the fence BEING there. Turn that same ‘pen raised’ buck loose as a yearling and odds are this ‘phenomenon’ doesn’t occur.   As I said, I got this information from Klaus Lebrecht, a renowned antler replicator, who has copied lots of giant racks, from pen raised AND wild deer.  I’m sure their are indicators besides gore marks on the antlers which would prove a buck was pen raised.

tough one to ‘prove’. Just what is it, specifically, you find atypical about Rompola’s buck? What hideous mutations qualify it as being different than other record book animals?

You tell me: http://www.ualberta.ca/~rg/deercomp.htm Visit the rec.hunting and rec.hunting.dogs FAQ Home Page at:         http://sportsmansweb.com/hunting/

Response:

Do some more reading and asking. There IS literature out there that suggests that GH DOES, in fact, increase antler mass ……. and if used

Here you go again CLAIMING there is some proof but again you fail to list what it is. Provide us with the name of this literature so we can all read it and then maybe we could agree with you. But I doubt you will provide it because I doubt it exists.  It would serve no purpose.  Besides, as already pointed out, how can one eliminate a deer from record book consideration simply because it has substances in its tissues which are not ‘natural’? That suggestion is more naive than the suggestion that such specimens SHOULD be disqualified.

Again your wrong. There are places where there are NATURAL concentrations of minerals that promote antler growth. I know of a couple of areas here in Michigan where biologists have determined this to be the case although I can’t say for sure the area where the Rompola buck was taken is like that. So we should disqualify any deer with a higher than normal level of certain minerals. Yeah right. Hmmmm……. so would this ‘artist’ be a molecular biologist, a vertebrate biologist, and an ungulate biologist all wrapped up in one ????

And like you are? Oh that’s right your the master and smarter than everyone else, I forgot. <sarcasm meant To even CONSIDER disqualifying an animal because of “deep gore marks from raking restricting fences” is assinine. In all of this discussion about ‘legality’ of WR entrants, this ranks right up there with ANY theory based upon circumstantial evidence only. ALL bucks rub their antlers  (some of these rubs may even be in unfenced areas), and what IF a deep gore in the antler results …. it’s disqualified ? That is ludicrous. At least the ‘dietary supplement’ theory COULD be measured (provided a protocol could be established and put into place ….. and no one is saying that it would be easy) and disqualification based upon something measurable. “Diagnosing” (as you put it) a buck that has been pen raised may be possible (I wouldn’t want to try and prove it without appropriate evidence), but it certainly would have to rely on something more than gore marks in the antlers.

This isn’t any more asinine than your theories or beliefs. Recently you said something about 400lbs of proof when referring to the Rompola buck which weighs 263 lbs, where do you come up with 400 lbs out of 263 lbs, which isn’t that large. I now of several deer taken here in Michigan that have weighed more than that. When deer live in farm areas, they receive all the food they need to grow to large sizes. But again let’s go back to the beginning, provide some proof. Don’t just claim there is some proof like you have been, provide it. Ever hear of put up or shut up. It applies here. You have been challenged to provide the proof that you CLAIM is out there, now do it. Otherwise we’ll have to put you in the category that you wish to put Rompola, that is as a wannabe. Kevin Volz Visit the rec.hunting and rec.hunting.dogs FAQ Home Page at:         http://sportsmansweb.com/hunting/

Response:

Do some more reading and asking. There IS literature out there that suggests that GH DOES, in fact, increase antler mass ……. and if used

I’m sure there IS literature out there about how GH increases antler mass, but who wrote it?  I e-mailed the world’s formost expert on antler development, George A. Bubenik, of the Dept. of Zoology at the University of giant antlers (of the Rompola buck) are the result of some steroid brew.  Is there any validity to these speculations?”  His reply: “Sure, there are some promising treatments on the drawing board, but so far I am not aware of ANYTHING PRACTICAL at this time.” IF this were to be true, (i.e. B&C insisting on tissue testing, and there is no reason to believe that to be accurate – it has never been reported), then it is probably because they have gone that extra mile to solicit more ‘knowledgeable’  biologist/scientist opinions re: effects of various substances on antler development.

This tissue testing DOES NOT occur now.  I was referring to others’ suggestions that maybe B&C SHOULD do it in the future to make sure all their record book animals are pure. It would serve no purpose.  Besides, as already pointed out, how can one eliminate a deer from record book consideration simply because it has substances in its tissues which are not ‘natural’? That suggestion is more naive than the suggestion that such specimens SHOULD be disqualified.

The suggestion is hardly naive.  It’s naive to believe simply testing an animal’s tissues would prove it’s juiced, because the ‘juice’ may have been ingested ‘innocently’.  Check out the list of chemicals in your average farmer’s stock.  To believe deer cannot ingest such when they’re introduced into the environment is foolish, and to say the deer should be disqualified again from an expert (an antler replicator who has copied most of the world’s biggest racks), Hmmmm……. so would this ‘artist’ be a molecular biologist, a vertebrate biologist, and an ungulate biologist all wrapped up in one ????

You snipped this out of context and combined two sentences.  This destroys the original point, and thus your question is nonsensical. To even CONSIDER disqualifying an animal because of “deep gore marks about ‘legality’ of WR entrants, this ranks right up there with ANY theory based upon circumstantial evidence only. ALL bucks rub their antlers  (some of these rubs may even be in unfenced areas), and what IF a deep gore in the antler results …. it’s disqualified ? That is ludicrous.

No kidding – all deer rub their antlers?  Wild deer rarely (if ever) rub their antlers on ANYTHING which would cause scoring of the bone.  Pen raised bucks ALWAYS DO, rub on steel wire fences and score their tines that is.  As I said, I got this information from Klaus Lebrecht, a renowned antler replicator, who has copied lots of giant racks, from pen raised AND wild deer.  I’m sure their are indicators besides gore marks on the antlers which would prove a buck was pen raised. Just what is it, specifically, you find atypical about Rompola’s buck?  What hideous mutations qualify it as being different than other record book animals? Visit the rec.hunting and rec.hunting.dogs FAQ Home Page at:        http://sportsmansweb.com/hunting/

Visit the rec.hunting and rec.hunting.dogs FAQ Home Page at:         http://sportsmansweb.com/hunting/

Response:

I hope this buck is not a hoax. It would have been nice if interviews and pictures were published. If this in fact is the largest buck ever taken we should be celebrating this with Mr. Rompola. In fact I wish i could shake his hand, maybe some of his luck would rub off onto me. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – A couple points to consider: first, I’ve contacted knowledgable antler specialists who confirm that neither steroids specifically nor any hormone brew will grow bigger antlers on whitetails.  If that worked, there’d be lots of monsters strutting their stuff on hunting preserves/game farms all over the country.  So, if ‘juicing’ a deer doesn’t work, why would B & C or any scoring organization want to tissue test deer?  It would serve no purpose.  Besides, as already pointed out, how can one eliminate a deer from record book consideration simply because it has substances in its tissues which are not ‘natural’?  Check out the list of chemicals in your average farmer’s stock.  To believe deer cannot ingest such when they’re introduced into the environment is foolish, and to say the deer should be disqualified again from an expert (an antler replicator who has copied most of the world’s biggest racks), diagnosing a buck as pen raised isn’t all that difficult.  Most of these beasts have deep gore marks on their antlers from raking them across the fences which keep them captive.  More than one fraud has been exposed because of this interesting point.  Finally, all this talk about the deer’s appearance: what do you expect?  This is a gigantic buck which bears little resemblance to the average whitetail because it’s a WORLD RECORD!  Normal deer do not attain world record status.  Did you ever look at the world record largemouth bass?  It looks nothing like a run-of-the-mill bucketmouth (almost seems to be another species), but then again, I wouldn’t expect it to! Richard A. Wulterkens Visit the rec.hunting and rec.hunting.dogs FAQ Home Page at:        http://sportsmansweb.com/hunting/

Visit the rec.hunting and rec.hunting.dogs FAQ Home Page at:         http://sportsmansweb.com/hunting/

Response:

A couple points to consider: first, I’ve contacted knowledgable antler specialists who confirm that neither steroids specifically nor any hormone brew will grow bigger antlers on whitetails.

Do some more reading and asking. There IS literature out there that suggests that GH DOES, in fact, increase antler mass ……. and if used  If that worked, there’d be lots of monsters strutting their stuff on hunting preserves/game farms all over the country.  So, if ‘juicing’ a deer doesn’t work, why would B & C or any scoring organization want to tissue test deer?

IF this were to be true, (i.e. B&C insisting on tissue testing, and there is no reason to believe that to be accurate – it has never been reported), then it is probably because they have gone that extra mile to solicit more ‘knowledgeable’  biologist/scientist opinions re: effects of various substances on antler development.  It would serve no purpose.  Besides, as already pointed out, how can one eliminate a deer from record book consideration simply because it has substances in its tissues which are not ‘natural’?

That suggestion is more naive than the suggestion that such specimens SHOULD be disqualified.   Check out the list of chemicals in your average farmer’s stock.  To believe deer cannot ingest such when they’re introduced into the environment is foolish, and to say the deer should be disqualified again from an expert (an antler replicator who has copied most of the world’s biggest racks),

Hmmmm……. so would this ‘artist’ be a molecular biologist, a vertebrate biologist, and an ungulate biologist all wrapped up in one ????  diagnosing a buck as pen raised isn’t all that difficult.  Most of these beasts have deep gore marks on their antlers from raking them across the fences which keep them captive.  More than one fraud has been exposed because of this interesting point.

To even CONSIDER disqualifying an animal because of “deep gore marks about ‘legality’ of WR entrants, this ranks right up there with ANY theory based upon circumstantial evidence only. ALL bucks rub their antlers  (some of these rubs may even be in unfenced areas), and what IF a deep gore in the antler results …. it’s disqualified ? That is ludicrous. At least the ‘dietary supplement’ theory COULD be measured (provided a protocol could be established and put into place ….. and no one is saying that it would be easy) and disqualification based upon something measurable. “Diagnosing” (as you put it) a buck that has been pen raised may be possible (I wouldn’t want to try and prove it without appropriate evidence), but it certainly would have to rely on something more than gore marks in the antlers.   Finally, all this talk about the deer’s appearance: what do you expect?  This is a gigantic buck which bears little resemblance to the average whitetail because it’s a WORLD RECORD!

NO ! The fact that it is a potential WR has NOTHING to do with why it does NOT look like a typical white tail. All typical WR white tails to date (the existing being no exception) ‘looked’ typical. We can argue this until the next sighting of Hale-Bop ……. it has become semantic.   Normal deer do not attain world record status.  Did you ever look at the world record largemouth bass?  It looks nothing like a run-of-the-mill bucketmouth (almost seems to be another species), but then again, I wouldn’t expect it to!

Did you ever look at the existing WR (typical white tail). It looks almost identical to MILLIONS of other white tail, both afoot or mounted ……. only on a slightly larger scale. And no ….. I’ve never looked at the WR large mouthed bass …… just simply not interested …… thanks. Visit the rec.hunting and rec.hunting.dogs FAQ Home Page at:         http://sportsmansweb.com/hunting/

Response:

A couple points to consider: first, I’ve contacted knowledgable antler specialists who confirm that neither steroids specifically nor any hormone brew will grow bigger antlers on whitetails.  If that worked, there’d be lots of monsters strutting their stuff on hunting preserves/game farms all over the country.  So, if ‘juicing’ a deer doesn’t work, why would B & C or any scoring organization want to tissue test deer?  It would serve no purpose.  Besides, as already pointed out, how can one eliminate a deer from record book consideration simply because it has substances in its tissues which are not ‘natural’?  Check out the list of chemicals in your average farmer’s stock.  To believe deer cannot ingest such when they’re introduced into the environment is foolish, and to say the deer should be disqualified again from an expert (an antler replicator who has copied most of the world’s biggest racks), diagnosing a buck as pen raised isn’t all that difficult.  Most of these beasts have deep gore marks on their antlers from raking them across the fences which keep them captive.  More than one fraud has been exposed because of this interesting point.  Finally, all this talk about the deer’s appearance: what do you expect?  This is a gigantic buck which bears little resemblance to the average whitetail because it’s a WORLD RECORD!  Normal deer do not attain world record status.  Did you ever look at the world record largemouth bass?  It looks nothing like a run-of-the-mill bucketmouth (almost seems to be another species), but then again, I wouldn’t expect it to! Richard A. Wulterkens Visit the rec.hunting and rec.hunting.dogs FAQ Home Page at:         http://sportsmansweb.com/hunting/

Response:

Question:

used largemouth bass for bait hahaha how to catch largemouth bass- www.catfishin.net

Response:

So? TNBass

used largemouth bass for bait hahaha — www.catfishin.net

Response:

You could use practically anything how to catch largemouth bass for those stupid catfish.   used largemouth bass for bait hahaha — www.catfishin.net

Response:

I guess this genius is killing time before his Mensa club meeting. — Bob Rickard SECRET WEAPON — World’s absolute finest spinnerbaits! All others are now obsolete .how to catch largemouth bass . . See for yourself at http://inetsa.com/user/secretweapon

used largemouth bass for bait hahaha — www.catfishin.net

Response:

antisocial pricks — www.catfishin.net

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I guess this genius is killing time before his Mensa club meeting. — Bob Rickard SECRET WEAPON — World’s absolute finest spinnerbaits! All others are now obsolete . . . See for yourself at http://inetsa.com/user/secretweapon used largemouth bass for bait hahaha — www.catfishin.net

Response:

I’m not antisocial! — Bob Rickard SECRET WEAPON — World’s absolute finest spinnerbaits! All others are now obsolete . . . See for yourself at http://inetsa.com/user/secretweapon

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – antisocial pricks — www.catfishin.net I guess this genius is killing time before his Mensa club meeting. — Bob Rickard SECRET WEAPON — World’s absolute finest spinnerbaits! All others are now obsolete . . . See for yourself at http://inetsa.com/user/secretweapon used largemouth bass for bait hahaha — www.catfishin.net

Response:

How can he call you anti-social, you did respond to his post? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I’m not antisocial! — Bob Rickard SECRET WEAPON — World’s absolute finest spinnerbaits! All others are now obsolete . . . See for yourself at http://inetsa.com/user/secretweapon antisocial pricks — www.catfishin.net I guess this genius is killing time before his Mensa club meeting. — Bob Rickard SECRET WEAPON — World’s absolute finest spinnerbaits! All others are now obsolete . . . See for yourself at http://inetsa.com/user/secretweapon used largemouth bass for bait hahaha — www.catfishin.net

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antisocial pricks

Troll

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Question:

fishing for largemouth bass… I suppose what all this means is that I spent too much on this new silver koi (got the prettiest bright orange markings too!) this morning huh?  $21 and ’shim’ (not sure if it’s a she or a him) isn’t even seven inches long. fishing for largemouth bass I couldn’t just leave the pet shop without him…he was pouting! Terry’s Aquarium has much better prices that Crystal Palace. Sorry. peace

No way!  If the fish is healthy and you like fishing for largemouth bass it for what it is, you got a heck of a bargain.

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Brett! You won’t believe this!fishing for largemouth bass Here I am developing a complex cuz my fish shy away from me, I bring home Hideeeeho Silver yesterday, and he turns into the leader of the pack!!!! In less than 24 hours, he turns around with one whisker and whistles to the other fish “‘Ey dummies, this ol’ lady has FOOD!!!!” Course, I’ve probably over fed them buy now!!!!! LOL  But it made for a FUN weekend!!!! Hi ho, Hi ho, it’s off to work we goooooo…arrggghhhhhhh…..;^) peace….Debbie – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – ROTF!!!! ^5 Soooooo… I suppose what all this means is that I spent too much on this new silver koi (got the prettiest bright orange markings too!) this morning huh?  $21 and ’shim’ (not sure if it’s a she or a him) isn’t even seven inches long.  I couldn’t just leave the pet shop without him…he was pouting! Terry’s Aquarium has much better prices that Crystal Palace. Sorry. peace….Debbie No way! fishing for largemouth bass If the fish is healthy and you like it for what it is, you got a heck of a bargain. Brett

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -what does one exactly do to hybrid fish? i understand how it works in plants, but not sure about fish. is it merely breeding two fish that normally wouldnt breed together in the wild? er, forced breeding? or is there more to it? -laurie Its been awhile since doing any of those, I can’t remember, but know I did others.  About 20 or so years ago fish culturists looked to hybridization to

Sometimes its as simple as giving a male of one species only the choice of females of another species to breed with.  Say put only Bluegill sunfish males into a pond with green sunfish females. Sometimes it is much more complicated such as the case of hybrid striped bass.  A gravid female striper is trapped from a river and injected with a hormone to make her ovulate.  At the same time, a ripe male white bass is caught and injected with a different hormone (sometimes not needed) to make it produce milt.  When the female ovulates, the eggs are collected in a container.  The male is then stripped of milt into the container of eggs. The eggs and milt are mixed and poured into incubators to hatch the now fertilized eggs.  The resulting fry are hybrids between striped bass and white bass. These are two extreme cases , everything inbetween and completely different might also be the case in producing hybrid fish. Brett

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It’s true – it was Brett who said a BF is not a Koi.  And, at least technically, he’s correct as it is some kind of bastard hybrid. … Oh fine–I told my Butterfly Koi he’s a bastard, and now he won’t eat!                           – jqt -

You shouldn’t have done that unless he was acting poorly. Brett

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what does one exactly do to hybrid fish? i understand how it works in plants, but not sure about fish. is it merely breeding two fish that normally wouldnt breed together in the wild? er, forced breeding? or is there more to it? -laurie – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Its been awhile since doing any of those, I can’t remember, but know I did others.  About 20 or so years ago fish culturists looked to hybridization to

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a BF is some kind of bastard hybrid.

I have yet to hear that the Japanese are into arranged marriages for their koi. Arranged breeding but not marriages. p The BF koi is a cross between the Indonesian Long-Fin Carp and the Japanese Ornamental Koi. Perhaps it would make the breeders of stubby fins happier if we just called them Butterfly Karp. How’s that? ;o) ~Keep ‘em Wet!~ jan/Tri-Cities WA    Zone 7 <– defender of the long-fin Remove Z to e-mail See my ponds: http://home.earthlink.net/~alanjordan1/jjspond/index.html

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Its been awhile since doing any of those, I can’t remember, but know I did others.  About 20 or so years ago fish culturists looked to hybridization to solve all thier problems (disease, slow growth, intolerance of bad water, etc.), it didn’t work out and the hybridization fad pretty much died out. Brett Interested to hear that. In the state of Oregon (maybe elsewhere) they were crossing striped bass with white bass.  They were a  planter sport fish in the Southern Coastal Tenmile Lakes system.  They were a good sport fish, had decent fillets, and took the pressure of the striped bass who were declining from habit degredation. The one problem was they were suppose to be sterile (mules)… OOPS… Anyway they stopped the program, though  there are still some in the lake system which peole go after as trophy fish  (for size as they are  the original planters and getting quite big) Opps off topic again… karma of this newsgroup. Carpy Diem… Fishy days

That is another one I worked with.  One of the really good ones.  They are commonly produced on farms around here for the fish market.  A very high value fish compared to catfish and tilapia. This is a case where the hybrid is in many ways superior to either parent. They live in a much broader range of water quality parameters than the striped bass,  andget much larger than the white bass.  Also, they are reasonably easy to hatch from either wild fish or captive breeding stock. This fish is still produced and stocked by the state of Texas in many reservoirs.  One of my old time cohorts on E. Texas electrofishing expeditions was the man that brought the white bass and hybrid striper to Texas (Ed Bonn).  Any serious fish culturist will recognize his name from the striped bass bible ( A Hatchery Manual for Striped Bass and thier Hybrids, or close to that). Nah, fish in ponds, even really big ones sometimes called reservoirs, are right on the topic.  If you really stretch, that is. Brett

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It’s true – it was Brett who said a BF is not a Koi.  And, at least technically, he’s correct as it is some kind of bastard hybrid. …

Oh fine–I told my Butterfly Koi he’s a bastard, and now he won’t eat!                            - jqt -

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It’s true – it was Brett who said a BF is not a Koi.  And, at least technically, he’s correct as it is some kind of bastard hybrid. … Oh fine–I told my Butterfly Koi he’s a bastard, and now he won’t eat!                           – jqt -

Yeah, I think Derek deserves and wet fish tail swipe up side the monitor for that one! ~ jan

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Its been awhile since doing any of those, I can’t remember, but know I did others.  About 20 or so years ago fish culturists looked to hybridization to solve all thier problems (disease, slow growth, intolerance of bad water, etc.), it didn’t work out and the hybridization fad pretty much died out. Brett

Interested to hear that. In the state of Oregon (maybe elsewhere) they were crossing striped bass with white bass.  They were a  planter sport fish in the Southern Coastal Tenmile Lakes system.  They were a good sport fish, had decent fillets, and took the pressure of the striped bass who were declining from habit degredation. The one problem was they were suppose to be sterile (mules)… OOPS… Anyway they stopped the program, though  there are still some in the lake system which peole go after as trophy fish  (for size as they are  the original planters and getting quite big) Opps off topic again… karma of this newsgroup. Carpy Diem… Fishy days

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writes: a longfin (butterfly) is not really a koi.

what is it then? Karen M. Mullen Houston, TX Visit my pond at http://members.aol.com/kmam1/MyPond/MyPond.html and My Art Studio, specializing in Pet Portraits at http://members.aol.com/kmmstudios/K.M.Studios/K.M.Studios.html

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writes: a longfin (butterfly) is not really a koi.

I didn’t write that! No way in the world would *MIO* write that. Only a breeder of stubby fins would write such a thing. <beg what is it then? ~ Karen M. Mullen

I will answer this though. What is it? Something better, an evolutionary improvement! ;o) ~Keep ‘em Wet!~ jan/Tri-Cities WA    Zone 7 <– Lover of BF Koi obviously Remove Z to e-mail See my ponds: http://home.earthlink.net/~alanjordan1/jjspond/index.html

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Jordan) writes: a longfin (butterfly) is not really a koi. I didn’t write that! No way in the world would *MIO* write that. Only a breeder of stubby fins would write such a thing. <beg what is it then? ~ Karen M. Mullen I will answer this though. What is it? Something better, an evolutionary improvement! ;o)

It’s true – it was Brett who said a BF is not a Koi.  And, at least technically, he’s correct as it is some kind of bastard hybrid.  Koi breeders like Brett (and like most other ornamental fish breeders I’ve met) are very fond of selective breeding to enhance specific traits, but not at all in favor of short-cutting the process by hybridizing. This, of course, is completely antithetical to the plant breeders who’ll hybridize anything. I think Brett’s opinion on the subject would probably be something like, “If God had wanted Koi to have long fins, somebody would already have bred them WITHOUT resorting to hybrids!”.  Close, Brett? — rec.ponds FAQ  http://w3.one.net/~rzutt/faq.html  or: http://www.netcom.ca/~dbrought/pond/maintenance.html for latest updates A great many people believe they are thinking when they are merely rearranging their prejudices.   – William James

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I know of one longfin koi that was sold for $6000.  Sounds like a lot, but where koi are concerned it isn’t.  Of course a longfin (butterfly) is not really a koi.

Brett,  :::::snort, snicker::::: For $6,000 you’d call it a *koi* I’m sure! But you are absolutely right, a longfin (butterfly) is not really a koi. It’s better than those homely cousins. ;o) ~Keep ‘em Wet!~ jan/Tri-Cities WA    Zone 7 Remove Z to e-mail See my ponds: http://home.earthlink.net/~alanjordan1/jjspond/index.html

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Jordan) writes: a longfin (butterfly) is not really a koi. I didn’t write that! No way in the world would *MIO* write that. Only a breeder of stubby fins would write such a thing. <beg what is it then? ~ Karen M. Mullen I will answer this though. What is it? Something better, an evolutionary improvement! ;o) It’s true – it was Brett who said a BF is not a Koi.  And, at least technically, he’s correct as it is some kind of bastard hybrid.  Koi breeders like Brett (and like most other ornamental fish breeders I’ve met) are very fond of selective breeding to enhance specific traits, but not at all in favor of short-cutting the process by hybridizing. This, of course, is completely antithetical to the plant breeders who’ll hybridize anything. I think Brett’s opinion on the subject would probably be something like, “If God had wanted Koi to have long fins, somebody would already have bred them WITHOUT resorting to hybrids!”.  Close, Brett? — rec.ponds FAQ  http://w3.one.net/~rzutt/faq.html or: http://www.netcom.ca/~dbrought/pond/maintenance.html for latest updates A great many people believe they are thinking when they are merely rearranging their prejudices.   – William James

Not far. To answer the question, “What is it, then?” It is an abomination.  Folks who enjoy collecting physical deformities should enjoy longfins as much as goldfish.   I say it isn’t a koi because there are some strict definitions as to what a “koi” is.  The longfin does not fit due to a lack of, or more correctly, unusual conformation with respect to the fins. I have actually been a judge at a koi show for longfins, so you can’t say there is no place for them at a fish show.  Just no place for them with the koi. As best as I can figure from asking some Japanese longfin breeders (most have given up on the variety), the fish is a cross between Japanese koi and Indonesian longfin carp grown there (Indonesia) for food.  The Indonesian carp has the charactersistics of rapid growth and large maximum attainable size, both very desirable with respect to koi.  It musta worked because I’ve seen some real sea monster longfins. By the strict definition of a hybrid, it really doesn’t fit as both fish belong to the species Cyprinus carpio.  I suppose you would have to call them both varieties or cultivars.  In some professional fisheries journals I see koi described as a variety (Cyprinus carpio var. koi).   I have a good friend breeding longfins in S. Texas.  His many years of work has indeed yielded some striking specimens.  I must admit to being somewhat enamored with some of them.   I do not breed any longfins, I have rarely seen a longfin amongst my offspring, leading me to beleive the bloodline of one of my broodfish isn’t as pure as I was originally led to beleive.  I do know that when crossing a longfin to a koi, you get some koi, some longfins, and some intermediates.   I stay away from hybrids, for the most part, and entirely with respect to breeding koi.  Koi and goldfish will hybridize to make a real junkyard dog. The state (Texas) breeds those as bass food.   Most of my hybridization projects didn’t work out.  Hybrids I’ve bred: White X Black Crappie (still too weak to handle) Many sunfish hybrids (some of these were pretty good fish) Bigmouth X Smallmouth Buffalo fish (still a Buffalo fish) Grass Carp X Bighead Carp (technically a legal grass carp in Texas at one time, just it didn’t eat grass) Channel X Blue Catfish (too difficult to produce to be feasable) Many Tilapia hybrids (some were good fish, others no account) Its been awhile since doing any of those, I can’t remember, but know I did others.  About 20 or so years ago fish culturists looked to hybridization to solve all thier problems (disease, slow growth, intolerance of bad water, etc.), it didn’t work out and the hybridization fad pretty much died out. Nowadays, I’m loath to mix breeds, let alone species. Brett

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A half a million dollars… The fiction writer in me imagines a home pond full of koi happily breeding, the pond owner proudly raising the babies, never knowing that one of those babies is worth five times what their house is worth. I know, I know, it would be a looooonnnnggg shot but that is what fiction is all about!

Not at all.  I know several such cases, right up the road in Houston.  Nice but small home in an unassuming neighborhood, 10,000 gallon koi pond with several koi, each worth over $10,000 (as art), some worth as much as $40,000.  Just one example.  There are many.  Now, none of them are producing any babies, and all paid very pretty pennies for thier collection pieces.   A question – I have a metalic silver butterfly koi (Hi Ho Silver), that I picked up at PetsMart. He/she kind of has a black line very smudged, on the head and ‘neck’ that seems to be ‘under the skin’. I expect that is a defect. What is that, does it have a name?

Sounds kinda like a platinum matsuba or even a ghost.  Sometimes dark under the skin comes up as the fish grows and becomes darker, even black. Brett – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -k30 http://home.earthlink.net/~alanjordan1/jjspond/index.html                 pictures courtesy of Jan, Pond Goddess.

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Or, depends on what make and year of car you drove up in. Brett!  You wouldn’t.  If I should ever make it to your neck of the woods I’ll have to rent a car from rent-a-heap.  :-)

That would be very wise if you want a good koi, cheap. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Or, depends on whether you need a piece of art or a pet. Pets have little if any intrinsic value but huge sentimental value. Art has intrinsic value. Call me a Philistine, but I’m not prepared to believe that art has any intrinsic value.  As a very small time collector, I’m entirely bound by the rule that I only purchase what I like, because I have no expectation that it will ever have resale value. Tell the Japanese collector who paid $30 million for a Van Gogh, that apparently wasn’t even painted by Van Gogh, that it has intrinsic value.  Convince the average Canadian that “Voice of Fire” (a beautiful cobalt blue stripe on a red background purchased by our national gallery for, I think, $500,000) has intrinsic value.  I can’t agree that anything that routinely sells at auction could have an ‘intrinsic’ value any higher than price at which the auctioneer starts the bidding. Derek

You Phillistine, you.  Perhaps your definition is better than mine.  I suppose you couldn’t use your Van Gogh reproduction to get a basket full of vegetables.  Same goes for a big koi not fit to eat. Koi are very much the same. Nobody is going to pay big money for your koi just becouse you love it.  Conversely, a rare and beautiful  koi is worth as much as any collector is willing to pay and no more.  Some collectors have paid huge sums for some koi.  Most hobbiest are able to purchase many nice koi for little money. Most koi you see are not collector’s items.  You usually will have to go to a specialty shop to find such fish for sale, or to a koi show to just view them. Brett

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Or, depends on what make and year of car you drove up in.

Brett!  You wouldn’t.  If I should ever make it to your neck of the woods I’ll have to rent a car from rent-a-heap.  :-) Or, depends on whether you need a piece of art or a pet. Pets have little if any intrinsic value but huge sentimental value. Art has intrinsic value.

Call me a Philistine, but I’m not prepared to believe that art has any intrinsic value.  As a very small time collector, I’m entirely bound by the rule that I only purchase what I like, because I have no expectation that it will ever have resale value. Tell the Japanese collector who paid $30 million for a Van Gogh, that apparently wasn’t even painted by Van Gogh, that it has intrinsic value.  Convince the average Canadian that “Voice of Fire” (a beautiful cobalt blue stripe on a red background purchased by our national gallery for, I think, $500,000) has intrinsic value.  I can’t agree that anything that routinely sells at auction could have an ‘intrinsic’ value any higher than price at which the auctioneer starts the bidding. Derek

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Okay, I have a 12″ butterfly koi that is extremely beautiful (metallic orange and white).  I’m not thinking of getting rid of him but what is a fish like this worth?  Thanks. Jason

When asked that question at an American Fisheries Society meeting where I’d made a presentation, in reference to a 10 lb. largemouth bass, my answer was “That would depend upon whether I was buying or selling”. Same goes for a koi, whatever the market will bear.   Or, depends on what make and year of car you drove up in. Or, depends on whether you need a piece of art or a pet. Pets have little if any intrinsic value but huge sentimental value.  Art has intrinsic value.  A very rare and beautiful koi might sell for as much as half a million dollars.  A lost pet costs a broken heart.  Which is more? I know of one longfin koi that was sold for $6000.  Sounds like a lot, but where koi are concerned it isn’t.  Of course a longfin (butterfly) is not really a koi. Brett

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A half a million dollars… The fiction writer in me imagines a home pond full of koi happily breeding, the pond owner proudly raising the babies, never knowing that one of those babies is worth five times what their house is worth. I know, I know, it would be a looooonnnnggg shot but that is what fiction is all about! A question – I have a metalic silver butterfly koi (Hi Ho Silver), that I picked up at PetsMart. He/she kind of has a black line very smudged, on the head and ‘neck’ that seems to be ‘under the skin’. I expect that is a defect. What is that, does it have a name? k30 http://home.earthlink.net/~alanjordan1/jjspond/index.html                 pictures courtesy of Jan, Pond Goddess.

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Okay, I have a 12″ butterfly koi that is extremely beautiful (metallic orange and white).  I’m not thinking of getting rid of him but what is a fish like this worth?  Thanks. Jason

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My pond is rather small — 500 gallons (when wet) — so I only have a few fish. One butterfly koi is getting rather large (for my small pond) — he’s about ten or eleven inches long, and maybe about a pound with his shoes off. Anyway, I’ve been half thinking of selling him, since he’s growing quickly, and I will need more plants next year just to offset his presence. So, what’s a really ugly butterfly koi worth? He’s a few year’s old, and answers to the name “Cartman.”                            - jqt -

Its hard to sell a lower qual. Koi or Goldfish etc.  unless you find someone who just wants larger fish  (rare) to make up numbers in a pond.  buying higher qual. and raising makes it much easier  to sell them when bigger,even turn a profit w/ some. —  Ken Arnold,  KenCo Fish & Supplies  Pond and Aquarium fish,  Shipping plants/fish etc. a specialty    Imported & domestic Koi,Goldfish,Orandas,  Tropicals,exotics, Piranhas etc.

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My pond is rather small — 500 gallons (when wet) — so I only have a few fish. One butterfly koi is getting rather large (for my small pond) — he’s about ten or eleven inches long, and maybe about a pound with his shoes off. Anyway, I’ve been half thinking of selling him, since he’s growing quickly, and I will need more plants next year just to offset his presence. So, what’s a really ugly butterfly koi worth? He’s a few year’s old, and answers to the name “Cartman.”                            - jqt -

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ROTF!!!! ^5 Soooooo… I suppose what all this means is that I spent too much on this new silver koi (got the prettiest bright orange markings too!) this morning huh?  $21 and ’shim’ (not sure if it’s a she or a him) isn’t even seven inches long.  I couldn’t just leave the pet shop without him…he was pouting! Terry’s Aquarium has much better prices that Crystal Palace. Sorry. peace….Debbie

No way!  If the fish is healthy and you like it for what it is, you got a heck of a bargain.   Brett

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Brett! You won’t believe this! Here I am developing a complex cuz my fish shy away from me, I bring home Hideeeeho Silver yesterday, and he turns into the leader of the pack!!!! In less than 24 hours, he turns around with one whisker and whistles to the other fish “‘Ey dummies, this ol’ lady has FOOD!!!!” Course, I’ve probably over fed them buy now!!!!! LOL  But it made for a FUN weekend!!!! Hi ho, Hi ho, it’s off to work we goooooo…arrggghhhhhhh…..;^) peace….Debbie – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – ROTF!!!! ^5 Soooooo… I suppose what all this means is that I spent too much on this new silver koi (got the prettiest bright orange markings too!) this morning huh?  $21 and ’shim’ (not sure if it’s a she or a him) isn’t even seven inches long.  I couldn’t just leave the pet shop without him…he was pouting! Terry’s Aquarium has much better prices that Crystal Palace. Sorry. peace….Debbie No way!  If the fish is healthy and you like it for what it is, you got a heck of a bargain. Brett

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -what does one exactly do to hybrid fish? i understand how it works in plants, but not sure about fish. is it merely breeding two fish that normally wouldnt breed together in the wild? er, forced breeding? or is there more to it? -laurie Its been awhile since doing any of those, I can’t remember, but know I did others.  About 20 or so years ago fish culturists looked to hybridization to

Sometimes its as simple as giving a male of one species only the choice of females of another species to breed with.  Say put only Bluegill sunfish males into a pond with green sunfish females. Sometimes it is much more complicated such as the case of hybrid striped bass.  A gravid female striper is trapped from a river and injected with a hormone to make her ovulate.  At the same time, a ripe male white bass is caught and injected with a different hormone (sometimes not needed) to make it produce milt.  When the female ovulates, the eggs are collected in a container.  The male is then stripped of milt into the container of eggs. The eggs and milt are mixed and poured into incubators to hatch the now fertilized eggs.  The resulting fry are hybrids between striped bass and white bass. These are two extreme cases , everything inbetween and completely different might also be the case in producing hybrid fish. Brett

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It’s true – it was Brett who said a BF is not a Koi.  And, at least technically, he’s correct as it is some kind of bastard hybrid. … Oh fine–I told my Butterfly Koi he’s a bastard, and now he won’t eat!                           – jqt -

You shouldn’t have done that unless he was acting poorly. Brett

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what does one exactly do to hybrid fish? i understand how it works in plants, but not sure about fish. is it merely breeding two fish that normally wouldnt breed together in the wild? er, forced breeding? or is there more to it? -laurie – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Its been awhile since doing any of those, I can’t remember, but know I did others.  About 20 or so years ago fish culturists looked to hybridization to

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a BF is some kind of bastard hybrid.

I have yet to hear that the Japanese are into arranged marriages for their koi. Arranged breeding but not marriages. p The BF koi is a cross between the Indonesian Long-Fin Carp and the Japanese Ornamental Koi. Perhaps it would make the breeders of stubby fins happier if we just called them Butterfly Karp. How’s that? ;o) ~Keep ‘em Wet!~ jan/Tri-Cities WA    Zone 7 <– defender of the long-fin Remove Z to e-mail See my ponds: http://home.earthlink.net/~alanjordan1/jjspond/index.html

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Its been awhile since doing any of those, I can’t remember, but know I did others.  About 20 or so years ago fish culturists looked to hybridization to solve all thier problems (disease, slow growth, intolerance of bad water, etc.), it didn’t work out and the hybridization fad pretty much died out. Brett Interested to hear that. In the state of Oregon (maybe elsewhere) they were crossing striped bass with white bass.  They were a  planter sport fish in the Southern Coastal Tenmile Lakes system.  They were a good sport fish, had decent fillets, and took the pressure of the striped bass who were declining from habit degredation. The one problem was they were suppose to be sterile (mules)… OOPS… Anyway they stopped the program, though  there are still some in the lake system which peole go after as trophy fish  (for size as they are  the original planters and getting quite big) Opps off topic again… karma of this newsgroup. Carpy Diem… Fishy days

That is another one I worked with.  One of the really good ones.  They are commonly produced on farms around here for the fish market.  A very high value fish compared to catfish and tilapia. This is a case where the hybrid is in many ways superior to either parent. They live in a much broader range of water quality parameters than the striped bass,  andget much larger than the white bass.  Also, they are reasonably easy to hatch from either wild fish or captive breeding stock. This fish is still produced and stocked by the state of Texas in many reservoirs.  One of my old time cohorts on E. Texas electrofishing expeditions was the man that brought the white bass and hybrid striper to Texas (Ed Bonn).  Any serious fish culturist will recognize his name from the striped bass bible ( A Hatchery Manual for Striped Bass and thier Hybrids, or close to that). Nah, fish in ponds, even really big ones sometimes called reservoirs, are right on the topic.  If you really stretch, that is. Brett

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It’s true – it was Brett who said a BF is not a Koi.  And, at least technically, he’s correct as it is some kind of bastard hybrid. …

Oh fine–I told my Butterfly Koi he’s a bastard, and now he won’t eat!                            - jqt -

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It’s true – it was Brett who said a BF is not a Koi.  And, at least technically, he’s correct as it is some kind of bastard hybrid. … Oh fine–I told my Butterfly Koi he’s a bastard, and now he won’t eat!                           – jqt -

Yeah, I think Derek deserves and wet fish tail swipe up side the monitor for that one! ~ jan

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Its been awhile since doing any of those, I can’t remember, but know I did others.  About 20 or so years ago fish culturists looked to hybridization to solve all thier problems (disease, slow growth, intolerance of bad water, etc.), it didn’t work out and the hybridization fad pretty much died out. Brett

Interested to hear that. In the state of Oregon (maybe elsewhere) they were crossing striped bass with white bass.  They were a  planter sport fish in the Southern Coastal Tenmile Lakes system.  They were a good sport fish, had decent fillets, and took the pressure of the striped bass who were declining from habit degredation. The one problem was they were suppose to be sterile (mules)… OOPS… Anyway they stopped the program, though  there are still some in the lake system which peole go after as trophy fish  (for size as they are  the original planters and getting quite big) Opps off topic again… karma of this newsgroup. Carpy Diem… Fishy days

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writes: a longfin (butterfly) is not really a koi.

what is it then? Karen M. Mullen Houston, TX Visit my pond at http://members.aol.com/kmam1/MyPond/MyPond.html and My Art Studio, specializing in Pet Portraits at http://members.aol.com/kmmstudios/K.M.Studios/K.M.Studios.html

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writes: a longfin (butterfly) is not really a koi.

I didn’t write that! No way in the world would *MIO* write that. Only a breeder of stubby fins would write such a thing. <beg what is it then? ~ Karen M. Mullen

I will answer this though. What is it? Something better, an evolutionary improvement! ;o) ~Keep ‘em Wet!~ jan/Tri-Cities WA    Zone 7 <– Lover of BF Koi obviously Remove Z to e-mail See my ponds: http://home.earthlink.net/~alanjordan1/jjspond/index.html

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Jordan) writes: a longfin (butterfly) is not really a koi. I didn’t write that! No way in the world would *MIO* write that. Only a breeder of stubby fins would write such a thing. <beg what is it then? ~ Karen M. Mullen I will answer this though. What is it? Something better, an evolutionary improvement! ;o)

It’s true – it was Brett who said a BF is not a Koi.  And, at least technically, he’s correct as it is some kind of bastard hybrid.  Koi breeders like Brett (and like most other ornamental fish breeders I’ve met) are very fond of selective breeding to enhance specific traits, but not at all in favor of short-cutting the process by hybridizing. This, of course, is completely antithetical to the plant breeders who’ll hybridize anything. I think Brett’s opinion on the subject would probably be something like, “If God had wanted Koi to have long fins, somebody would already have bred them WITHOUT resorting to hybrids!”.  Close, Brett? — rec.ponds FAQ  http://w3.one.net/~rzutt/faq.html  or: http://www.netcom.ca/~dbrought/pond/maintenance.html for latest updates A great many people believe they are thinking when they are merely rearranging their prejudices.   – William James

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I know of one longfin koi that was sold for $6000.  Sounds like a lot, but where koi are concerned it isn’t.  Of course a longfin (butterfly) is not really a koi.

Brett,  :::::snort, snicker::::: For $6,000 you’d call it a *koi* I’m sure! But you are absolutely right, a longfin (butterfly) is not really a koi. It’s better than those homely cousins. ;o) ~Keep ‘em Wet!~ jan/Tri-Cities WA    Zone 7 Remove Z to e-mail See my ponds: http://home.earthlink.net/~alanjordan1/jjspond/index.html

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Jordan) writes: a longfin (butterfly) is not really a koi. I didn’t write that! No way in the world would *MIO* write that. Only a breeder of stubby fins would write such a thing. <beg what is it then? ~ Karen M. Mullen I will answer this though. What is it? Something better, an evolutionary improvement! ;o) It’s true – it was Brett who said a BF is not a Koi.  And, at least technically, he’s correct as it is some kind of bastard hybrid.  Koi breeders like Brett (and like most other ornamental fish breeders I’ve met) are very fond of selective breeding to enhance specific traits, but not at all in favor of short-cutting the process by hybridizing. This, of course, is completely antithetical to the plant breeders who’ll hybridize anything. I think Brett’s opinion on the subject would probably be something like, “If God had wanted Koi to have long fins, somebody would already have bred them WITHOUT resorting to hybrids!”.  Close, Brett? — rec.ponds FAQ  http://w3.one.net/~rzutt/faq.html or: http://www.netcom.ca/~dbrought/pond/maintenance.html for latest updates A great many people believe they are thinking when they are merely rearranging their prejudices.   – William James

Not far. To answer the question, “What is it, then?” It is an abomination.  Folks who enjoy collecting physical deformities should enjoy longfins as much as goldfish.   I say it isn’t a koi because there are some strict definitions as to what a “koi” is.  The longfin does not fit due to a lack of, or more correctly, unusual conformation with respect to the fins. I have actually been a judge at a koi show for longfins, so you can’t say there is no place for them at a fish show.  Just no place for them with the koi. As best as I can figure from asking some Japanese longfin breeders (most have given up on the variety), the fish is a cross between Japanese koi and Indonesian longfin carp grown there (Indonesia) for food.  The Indonesian carp has the charactersistics of rapid growth and large maximum attainable size, both very desirable with respect to koi.  It musta worked because I’ve seen some real sea monster longfins. By the strict definition of a hybrid, it really doesn’t fit as both fish belong to the species Cyprinus carpio.  I suppose you would have to call them both varieties or cultivars.  In some professional fisheries journals I see koi described as a variety (Cyprinus carpio var. koi).   I have a good friend breeding longfins in S. Texas.  His many years of work has indeed yielded some striking specimens.  I must admit to being somewhat enamored with some of them.   I do not breed any longfins, I have rarely seen a longfin amongst my offspring, leading me to beleive the bloodline of one of my broodfish isn’t as pure as I was originally led to beleive.  I do know that when crossing a longfin to a koi, you get some koi, some longfins, and some intermediates.   I stay away from hybrids, for the most part, and entirely with respect to breeding koi.  Koi and goldfish will hybridize to make a real junkyard dog. The state (Texas) breeds those as bass food.   Most of my hybridization projects didn’t work out.  Hybrids I’ve bred: White X Black Crappie (still too weak to handle) Many sunfish hybrids (some of these were pretty good fish) Bigmouth X Smallmouth Buffalo fish (still a Buffalo fish) Grass Carp X Bighead Carp (technically a legal grass carp in Texas at one time, just it didn’t eat grass) Channel X Blue Catfish (too difficult to produce to be feasable) Many Tilapia hybrids (some were good fish, others no account) Its been awhile since doing any of those, I can’t remember, but know I did others.  About 20 or so years ago fish culturists looked to hybridization to solve all thier problems (disease, slow growth, intolerance of bad water, etc.), it didn’t work out and the hybridization fad pretty much died out. Nowadays, I’m loath to mix breeds, let alone species. Brett

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A half a million dollars… The fiction writer in me imagines a home pond full of koi happily breeding, the pond owner proudly raising the babies, never knowing that one of those babies is worth five times what their house is worth. I know, I know, it would be a looooonnnnggg shot but that is what fiction is all about!

Not at all.  I know several such cases, right up the road in Houston.  Nice but small home in an unassuming neighborhood, 10,000 gallon koi pond with several koi, each worth over $10,000 (as art), some worth as much as $40,000.  Just one example.  There are many.  Now, none of them are producing any babies, and all paid very pretty pennies for thier collection pieces.   A question – I have a metalic silver butterfly koi (Hi Ho Silver), that I picked up at PetsMart. He/she kind of has a black line very smudged, on the head and ‘neck’ that seems to be ‘under the skin’. I expect that is a defect. What is that, does it have a name?

Sounds kinda like a platinum matsuba or even a ghost.  Sometimes dark under the skin comes up as the fish grows and becomes darker, even black. Brett – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -k30 http://home.earthlink.net/~alanjordan1/jjspond/index.html                 pictures courtesy of Jan, Pond Goddess.

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Or, depends on what make and year of car you drove up in. Brett!  You wouldn’t.  If I should ever make it to your neck of the woods I’ll have to rent a car from rent-a-heap.  :-)

That would be very wise if you want a good koi, cheap. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Or, depends on whether you need a piece of art or a pet. Pets have little if any intrinsic value but huge sentimental value. Art has intrinsic value. Call me a Philistine, but I’m not prepared to believe that art has any intrinsic value.  As a very small time collector, I’m entirely bound by the rule that I only purchase what I like, because I have no expectation that it will ever have resale value. Tell the Japanese collector who paid $30 million for a Van Gogh, that apparently wasn’t even painted by Van Gogh, that it has intrinsic value.  Convince the average Canadian that “Voice of Fire” (a beautiful cobalt blue stripe on a red background purchased by our national gallery for, I think, $500,000) has intrinsic value.  I can’t agree that anything that routinely sells at auction could have an ‘intrinsic’ value any higher than price at which the auctioneer starts the bidding. Derek

You Phillistine, you.  Perhaps your definition is better than mine.  I suppose you couldn’t use your Van Gogh reproduction to get a basket full of vegetables.  Same goes for a big koi not fit to eat. Koi are very much the same. Nobody is going to pay big money for your koi just becouse you love it.  Conversely, a rare and beautiful  koi is worth as much as any collector is willing to pay and no more.  Some collectors have paid huge sums for some koi.  Most hobbiest are able to purchase many nice koi for little money. Most koi you see are not collector’s items.  You usually will have to go to a specialty shop to find such fish for sale, or to a koi show to just view them. Brett

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Or, depends on what make and year of car you drove up in.

Brett!  You wouldn’t.  If I should ever make it to your neck of the woods I’ll have to rent a car from rent-a-heap.  :-) Or, depends on whether you need a piece of art or a pet. Pets have little if any intrinsic value but huge sentimental value. Art has intrinsic value.

Call me a Philistine, but I’m not prepared to believe that art has any intrinsic value.  As a very small time collector, I’m entirely bound by the rule that I only purchase what I like, because I have no expectation that it will ever have resale value. Tell the Japanese collector who paid $30 million for a Van Gogh, that apparently wasn’t even painted by Van Gogh, that it has intrinsic value.  Convince the average Canadian that “Voice of Fire” (a beautiful cobalt blue stripe on a red background purchased by our national gallery for, I think, $500,000) has intrinsic value.  I can’t agree that anything that routinely sells at auction could have an ‘intrinsic’ value any higher than price at which the auctioneer starts the bidding. Derek

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Okay, I have a 12″ butterfly koi that is extremely beautiful (metallic orange and white).  I’m not thinking of getting rid of him but what is a fish like this worth?  Thanks. Jason

When asked that question at an American Fisheries Society meeting where I’d made a presentation, in reference to a 10 lb. largemouth bass, my answer was “That would depend upon whether I was buying or selling”. Same goes for a koi, whatever the market will bear.   Or, depends on what make and year of car you drove up in. Or, depends on whether you need a piece of art or a pet. Pets have little if any intrinsic value but huge sentimental value.  Art has intrinsic value.  A very rare and beautiful koi might sell for as much as half a million dollars.  A lost pet costs a broken heart.  Which is more? I know of one longfin koi that was sold for $6000.  Sounds like a lot, but where koi are concerned it isn’t.  Of course a longfin (butterfly) is not really a koi. Brett

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A half a million dollars… The fiction writer in me imagines a home pond full of koi happily breeding, the pond owner proudly raising the babies, never knowing that one of those babies is worth five times what their house is worth. I know, I know, it would be a looooonnnnggg shot but that is what fiction is all about! A question – I have a metalic silver butterfly koi (Hi Ho Silver), that I picked up at PetsMart. He/she kind of has a black line very smudged, on the head and ‘neck’ that seems to be ‘under the skin’. I expect that is a defect. What is that, does it have a name? k30 http://home.earthlink.net/~alanjordan1/jjspond/index.html                 pictures courtesy of Jan, Pond Goddess.

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Okay, I have a 12″ butterfly koi that is extremely beautiful (metallic orange and white).  I’m not thinking of getting rid of him but what is a fish like this worth?  Thanks. Jason

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My pond is rather small — 500 gallons (when wet) — so I only have a few fish. One butterfly koi is getting rather large (for my small pond) — he’s about ten or eleven inches long, and maybe about a pound with his shoes off. Anyway, I’ve been half thinking of selling him, since he’s growing quickly, and I will need more plants next year just to offset his presence. So, what’s a really ugly butterfly koi worth? He’s a few year’s old, and answers to the name “Cartman.”                            - jqt -

Its hard to sell a lower qual. Koi or Goldfish etc.  unless you find someone who just wants larger fish  (rare) to make up numbers in a pond.  buying higher qual. and raising makes it much easier  to sell them when bigger,even turn a profit w/ some. —  Ken Arnold,  KenCo Fish & Supplies  Pond and Aquarium fish,  Shipping plants/fish etc. a specialty    Imported & domestic Koi,Goldfish,Orandas,  Tropicals,exotics, Piranhas etc.

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My pond is rather small — 500 gallons (when wet) — so I only have a few fish. One butterfly koi is getting rather large (for my small pond) — he’s about ten or eleven inches long, and maybe about a pound with his shoes off. Anyway, I’ve been half thinking of selling him, since he’s growing quickly, and I will need more plants next year just to offset his presence. So, what’s a really ugly butterfly koi worth? He’s a few year’s old, and answers to the name “Cartman.”                            - jqt -

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Question:

Howdy,wicomico large mouth bass fishing Last year I dicovered a lake where smallmouth bass fishing was great (four bass a day, ranging two to four pounds). The bass where caught fly fishing using streamers and wet flies. The girls also caught there share with rapalas. This year bass fishing has been poor. One fish for four days is the average this year.   Comments anyone? Suggestions on flies (dry and or wet), methodes, time of the day…wicomico large mouth bass fishing.? Can anyone suggest books and/or videos on fly fishing (lakes)  for smallmouth bass.

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Jean – here is a short list of books on fly fishing for bass.  Many are still in print.  Also, check your local library and you might be surprised.  BROOKS, JOE – Bass Bug Fishing; A Complete Book On The Technique Of Fishing With Bass Bugs And The Methods Of Making Them. 69 pages.  1947.  A. S. Barnes.  NY.  ELLIS, JACK – Bassin’ With A Fly Rod One Fly Rodder’s Approach to Serious Bass Fishing  197 pages.  1994(c).  Mountain Pond Publishing Co.  North Conway NH. FAUST, WILLIAM F. – Fly-Fishing the Gulf Coastal Streams. 198 pages.  1970.  Carlton Press.  NY. HANLEY, KEN – Fly Fishing Afoot For Western Bass: Exploring The West’s Lakes, Rivers, Ponds And Reservoirs. 54 pages.   1995.  Adventures Beyond Publications.  Fremont CA.   Softbound.  KEITH, TOM – Fly Tying and Fishing for Panfish and Bass. 189 pages.  1989.  Frank Amato Publications.  Portland OR.  KREH, BERNARD “LEFTY” – Fly Fishing For Bass Smallmouth, Largemouth, Exotics. 144 pages.  1993.  Odysseus Editions, Inc.  Birmingham AL.  LIVINGSTON, A. D. – Fly-rodding for Bass. 203 pages.  1976.   Lippincott.  Phila. & NY.  LIVINGSTON, A. D. – Tying Bugs and Flies for Bass. 141 pages.  1977.  Lippincott.  Phila. & NY.  LIVINGSTON, A. D. – Bass On The Fly. ix, 151 pages.   1994.  Ragged Mountain Press.  Camden ME. MORRIS, SKIP – The Art of Tying the Bass Fly: Flies for Largemouth Bass, Smallmouth Bass, and Pan Fish. 88 pages.  1996(c) released in 1997.  Frank Amato Publications.  Portland OR.  MURRAY, HARRY – Fly Fishing for Smallmouth Bass. 190 pages.  1989.  Nick Lyons Books.  NY.  NIXON, TOM – Fly Tying And Fly Fishing For Bass And Panfish.  8vo.  336 pages.  1968, 1971.  A. S. Barnes.  NY. PFEIFFER, C. BOYD – Fly Fishing Bass Basics.  192 pages.   1997. Stackpole Books.  Mechanicsburg PA.  Softbound.  RYAN, WILL – Smallmouth Strategies for the Fly Rod. 212 pages.  1996.  Lyons and Burford.  NY.  STEWART, DICK – Bass Flies.  48 pages.  1989.   Published by author.  North Conway NH.  Distributed by Northland Press, Intervale NH.  STEWART, DICK & FARROW ALLEN – Flies For Bass And Panfish.  vii, 80 pages plus several unnumbered pages which include a selected bibliography and an index to fly dressings.  1992.  Northland Press Inc.  Intervale NH.  WATERMAN, CHARLES – Fly Rodding for Bass. 91 pages.   1989.  Nick Lyons Books.  New York.  WATERMAN, CHARLES F. – Black Bass and the Fly Rod. vii, 248 pages.  1993.  Stackpole Books. Harrisburg PA.  WHITLOCK, DAVE – L. L. Bean Fly Fishing For Bass Handbook. xii, 157 pages.  1988.  Softbound.  Nick Lyons Books.  NY.

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Question:

The person who claimed that largemouth are toxic was VERY uninformed. Some largemouth are indeed toxic.largemouth bass sketches… that is completely dependent on the water they are caught from. If the largemouth are toxic, then so are the crappie, white bass, striper, hybrids, perch, etc…. since they all eat the same things,largemouth bass sketches or eat things that eat the same things… etc. In any body of water, normally the bottom feeders are the first to become infected with whatever toxins are present, and the predetors are infected later. Bass can, and do get infected with polution, but they are normally one of the last species to become so infected, and one of the first species to become safe again after the environment is cleaned up… once again, due to the fact that they are predators and eat things like shad and perch… as opposed to bottom feeding (yes I know, they do eat crayfish, but in North American reservoirs,largemouth bass sketches shad and perch comprise the vast majority of their diet)…. I am a tournament bass fisherman, who has not eaten bass for almost 30 years… that is a choice that I made to help preserve the species for my own (albeit selfish) reasons…. that decision has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with the safety or quality of bass flesh… both of which are EXCELLENT! I do however, plead with you not to eat larger individuals of the species… the plentiful smaller fish are good to eat and safe… the larger ones are less tasy, and are so darn few that we need to save them for other people to have fun *Catching and Releasing*

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Bass are extra edible!!! Forget the fancy recipes. Catch your fish, clean them, Wrap them in foil with a pat of butter and a dash of Mary Jane’s Crazy Mixed Up Salt. Grill them over charcoal and EAT, EAT, EAT largemouth bass sketches with fresh squeezed lemon. YUM, YUM, YUM!!!!!!!

You forgot one step….UNWRAP FROM FOIL.  Then eat, eat, eat.  They taste a lot better that way. I eat lots of bass, but only the small ones (8-10 lbs).

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Had to chuckle when you said to unwrap from the foil before eating. Along those lines, let me tell you about our boy scout hiking trip in southern Illinois many, many moons ago.largemouth bass sketches Having plenty of “woodswise” people would have helped us, I’m sure, but our scout leaders were usually office people with time on their hands to try to take care of their own children.  Hank was such a leader, but we thought he knew everything.  Just in case we got hungry,  we brought sandwiches. Getting to the pond was great, and fishing in the afternoon with the hot sun beating down on you was not too bad, especially since one of the guys hooked and landed a 4-pound carp!  Our leader suggested we use the Indian method of cooking–dig a hole, build a fire in it, let it burn to the coals,largemouth bass sketches and wrap the fish in mud and put it in, then cover it back up and wait. Boy, were we hungry scouts eager to get that job done!  We went in every direction finding firewood, and one or two of the scouts daubed the fish all over with fresh mud, encasing it so the coals would cook the fish without burning it. After a few hours of creating mischief and getting hungrier and hungrier, it was time to dig up our feast!  Hank said to peel off the mud and the scales and skin would come off with it.  Okay. One of the guys burned his hand so I had to crack it open.  When I did the stench was TERRIBLE!  No one had thought to GUT the fish!! We hiked home eating MUSTARD and BREAD because no one thought to secure the food and raccoons had found it!  Hank quit the troop soon after that, so there were no more hikes or lessons in cooking in the wilderness for us. <G Injun Jim Pankey USN (Ret.) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Bass are extra edible!!! Forget the fancy recipes. Catch your fish, clean them, Wrap them in foil with a pat of butter and a dash of Mary Jane’s Crazy Mixed Up Salt. Grill them over charcoal and EAT, EAT, EAT with fresh squeezed lemon. YUM, YUM, YUM!!!!!!! You forgot one step….UNWRAP FROM FOIL.  Then eat, eat, eat.  They taste a lot better that way. I eat lots of bass, but only the small ones (8-10 lbs). Danny

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Really?They mustn’t be too awfully toxic,I’ve been eating them for 35 years or so and I’m feeling OK.

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Despite what is written below,  Largemouth bass are indeed toxic to eat and should be returned to the water alive, eat some crappies, perch, sunfish, catfish etc.. instead much better! I eat largemouth bass filets and they are delicious. My favorite way of cooking stems from when I was a child, and being served fish with all the bones and not liking it at all. Cut fillets into 2″ chunks, marinate 45 minutes in 7-up, beer, or any flavor soda or carbonated beverage (I find orange soda and 7-up my favorites)… Shake off excess, dip in buttermilk then into salted flour/cornmeal mixture (some people prefer 50/50, but I prefer 75 flour, 25 yellow cornmeal). Pop into very hot (350 degrees, just below smoking) peanut oil or whatever, they will surface and brown.  Remove when brown enough to suit your fancy. Serve immediately. I have been using this recipe (I believe it was in Outdoor Life way back in the early seventies) to get kids used to eating fish.  It works on adults too.  Develops a fine appreciation for flavor, since the marination gets rid of the lactic acid which builds up in the tissue when a fish fights…and also imparts a flavor of its own.  A caveat: the first pieces turn out “hard” due to the seasoning of the hot oil…so cook just one or two pieces at first. Injun Jim Jim Pankey USN (Ret.) Are these fish good to eat?  I keep seeing all these fishing shows about catching bass, but never any recipes ar anything.  Are they edible? — Greg Van Eeckhout Limnologist (I Study Lakes and Rivers) MSU Water Resources Center Web Page http://www.mankato.msus.edu/dept/water/WRCweb/wrc_2.html “Genius is nothing but a great aptitude for patience”

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Despite what is written below,  Largemouth bass are indeed toxic to eat and(snipped) Just the three-eyed ones that Bart catches.

That’s what he gets for fishing in those glowing fluorescent ponds next to the nuclear plant. <g – * Scott Smith – Designer / Developer / Consultant * * Graphics Software – http://graphicssoft.miningco.com * GRAPHIX! News – http://www.wwwebworld.com/graphix.html * WWWeb World Consulting – http://www.wwwebworld.com -

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The 4 string largemouth is toxic, but later 5 and 6 strings are safe AS LONG AS they are American bred. Many Asian breeds tend to be easier to catch, but are more prone to disease.

The following is from Sterba “Freshwater Fishes of the World” vol II pages 618-633.  Largemouth bass are member of the same family as sunfishes, Centrarchidae.  All are native to the Eastern United States and Southern Canada.  Micropterus salmoides, the largemouth bass is a popular game fish and has been widely distributed throughout North America , Europe, Africa and Asia.  Numerous other fishes with similar body shapes are refered to as basses.  All members of the Sunfishes are edible, and are widely utilized as food fish.   Largemouth Bass are raised in China, Tiawan, the U.S.A., and Europe as food fishes in aquaculture.   While much arguement takes place vis ai vis whether it is appropiate to take bass from the wild or to release them, it should be kept in mind that many states have stocking programs that insure there are sufficient fish.  In addition biologists are beginning to discover that catch and release can be too effective, resulting in high number of small fish, quanity but no quality.  Several articles on this subject have appeared in BASSMASTER magazine in the last couple of years. TA FAW

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You could eat carp if you wanted to,but really the bass is pretty much just a game fish,there for catching and releaesing not eating

Yes you could eat carp.  In fact you probably have.  Carp is the most popular fish used in oriental cooking and is commonly served in Chinese restraunts.  It is also popular in Jewish cooking and is frequently an ingredient in Gefilte Fish.  It is the most widely raised food fish and is popular in Asia, and Europe.  Commercial carp operations exist in the United States as well.  Carp is a mild flavored fish with a firm white flesh that is very slightly oily.  It flakes easily and may be utilized in any recipe calling for white fish.  Carp also makes an excellent smoked fish.   According to “The Encyclopedia of Fish Cookery”  a carp shold be immediatly bled and the dark (blood) meat removed during cleaning or the flavor will be significantly compromised. Wild caught fish vary in quality due to water quality and season.  The best eating wild caught carp come from flowing, clean water in the winter months. The carp is also a popular game fish in Asia and Europe and is gaining popularity in the United States.  In Europe, carp tournaments, much like our trout derbies, are popular.   Carp are an immensely strong fish and an excellent fighter.  On more than one occasion I have had a carp take a small grub, and they have out fought any bass of similar size I have ever caught.  once during a bass tournament at Pineflat Lake in central CA, I had a 15 lb carp tow the boat (a 19′ skeeter) for over 100 feet along the bank (it had taken a 3″ leech).  While I do not fish for carp, I will say that they do not deserve their reputation as a trash fish. TA FAW

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You could eat carp if you wanted to,but really the bass is pretty much just a game fish,there for catching and releaesing not eating

IMHO, I would not compare largemouth bass to carp in anyway.

Response:

Despite what is written below,  Largemouth bass are indeed toxic to eat and should be returned to the water alive, eat some crappies, perch, sunfish, catfish etc.. instead much better! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I eat largemouth bass filets and they are delicious. My favorite way of cooking stems from when I was a child, and being served fish with all the bones and not liking it at all. Cut fillets into 2″ chunks, marinate 45 minutes in 7-up, beer, or any flavor soda or carbonated beverage (I find orange soda and 7-up my favorites)… Shake off excess, dip in buttermilk then into salted flour/cornmeal mixture (some people prefer 50/50, but I prefer 75 flour, 25 yellow cornmeal).  Pop into very hot (350 degrees, just below smoking) peanut oil or whatever, they will surface and brown.  Remove when brown enough to suit your fancy.  Serve immediately. I have been using this recipe (I believe it was in Outdoor Life way back in the early seventies) to get kids used to eating fish.  It works on adults too.  Develops a fine appreciation for flavor, since the marination gets rid of the lactic acid which builds up in the tissue when a fish fights…and also imparts a flavor of its own.  A caveat: the first pieces turn out “hard” due to the seasoning of the hot oil…so cook just one or two pieces at first. Injun Jim Jim Pankey USN (Ret.) Are these fish good to eat?  I keep seeing all these fishing shows about catching bass, but never any recipes ar anything.  Are they edible?

– Greg Van Eeckhout Limnologist (I Study Lakes and Rivers) MSU Water Resources Center Web Page http://www.mankato.msus.edu/dept/water/WRCweb/wrc_2.html “Genius is nothing but a great aptitude for patience”

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How do you know this?  I ask this question without sarcasm BUT if the water is clean then where does the toxins come into play?  I look forward to your reply because I hate to think of how many LM Bass I’ve eaten (not to mention those that I’ve fed my kids). Signed Max Gurski (aka “A Concerned Parent”)

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Despite what is written below,  Largemouth bass are indeed toxic to eat and should be returned to the water alive, eat some crappies, perch, sunfish, catfish etc.. instead much better! I eat largemouth bass filets and they are delicious. My favorite way of cooking stems from when I was a child, and being served fish with all the bones and not liking it at all. Cut fillets into 2″ chunks, marinate 45 minutes in 7-up, beer, or any flavor soda or carbonated beverage (I find orange soda and 7-up my favorites)… Shake off excess, dip in buttermilk then into salted flour/cornmeal mixture (some people prefer 50/50, but I prefer 75 flour, 25 yellow cornmeal). Pop into very hot (350 degrees, just below smoking) peanut oil or whatever, they will surface and brown.  Remove when brown enough to suit your fancy. Serve immediately. I have been using this recipe (I believe it was in Outdoor Life way back in the early seventies) to get kids used to eating fish.  It works on adults too.  Develops a fine appreciation for flavor, since the marination gets rid of the lactic acid which builds up in the tissue when a fish fights…and also imparts a flavor of its own.  A caveat: the first pieces turn out “hard” due to the seasoning of the hot oil…so cook just one or two pieces at first. Injun Jim Jim Pankey USN (Ret.) Are these fish good to eat?  I keep seeing all these fishing shows about catching bass, but never any recipes ar anything.  Are they edible? — Greg Van Eeckhout Limnologist (I Study Lakes and Rivers) MSU Water Resources Center Web Page http://www.mankato.msus.edu/dept/water/WRCweb/wrc_2.html “Genius is nothing but a great aptitude for patience”

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Despite what is written below,  Largemouth bass are indeed toxic to eat and should be returned to the water alive, eat some crappies, perch, sunfish, catfish etc.. instead much better!

Sounds like hoooey to me.  If you’re joking so as to leave more bass in the water, say so.  If you’re serious then I think I’d like to see a source cited, because I’ve got several books here that say otherwise.

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The other day I noticed a news story on TV about a barbeque cookoff. The competitor they were interviewing had a big sign over his cooking area. It read: P.E.T.A. – People for the Eating of Tasty Animals. Now that’s a PETA I could join. G Gonda

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Despite what is written below,  Largemouth bass are indeed toxic to eat and(snipped)

Just the three-eyed ones that Bart catches.

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The 4 string largemouth is toxic, but later 5 and 6 strings are safe AS LONG AS they are American bred. Many Asian breeds tend to be easier to catch, but are more prone to disease. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Despite what is written below,  Largemouth bass are indeed toxic to eat and should be returned to the water alive, eat some crappies, perch, sunfish, catfish etc.. instead much better! I eat largemouth bass filets and they are delicious. My favorite way of cooking stems from when I was a child, and being served fish with all the bones and not liking it at all. Cut fillets into 2″ chunks, marinate 45 minutes in 7-up, beer, or any flavor soda or carbonated beverage (I find orange soda and 7-up my favorites)… Shake off excess, dip in buttermilk then into salted flour/cornmeal mixture (some people prefer 50/50, but I prefer 75 flour, 25 yellow cornmeal). Pop into very hot (350 degrees, just below smoking) peanut oil or whatever, they will surface and brown.  Remove when brown enough to suit your fancy. Serve immediately. I have been using this recipe (I believe it was in Outdoor Life way back in the early seventies) to get kids used to eating fish.  It works on adults too.  Develops a fine appreciation for flavor, since the marination gets rid of the lactic acid which builds up in the tissue when a fish fights…and also imparts a flavor of its own.  A caveat: the first pieces turn out “hard” due to the seasoning of the hot oil…so cook just one or two pieces at first. Injun Jim Jim Pankey USN (Ret.) Are these fish good to eat?  I keep seeing all these fishing shows about catching bass, but never any recipes ar anything.  Are they edible? — Greg Van Eeckhout Limnologist (I Study Lakes and Rivers) MSU Water Resources Center Web Page http://www.mankato.msus.edu/dept/water/WRCweb/wrc_2.html “Genius is nothing but a great aptitude for patience”

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Are these fish good to eat?  I keep seeing all these fishing shows about catching bass, but never any recipes ar anything.  Are they edible?

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You could eat carp if you wanted to,but really the bass is pretty much just a game fish,there for catching and releaesing not eating

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the australian bass is one of the best freshwater fish you can find in qld. thats probably wh y they only let you keep two. they are also a good fighting fish for their size. especially with a bit of size in them on 1kg line!!!! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – You could eat carp if you wanted to,but really the bass is pretty much just a game fish,there for catching and releaesing not eating

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I eat largemouth bass filets and they are delicious. My favorite way of cooking stems from when I was a child, and being served fish with all the bones and not liking it at all. Cut fillets into 2″ chunks, marinate 45 minutes in 7-up, beer, or any flavor soda or carbonated beverage (I find orange soda and 7-up my favorites)… Shake off excess, dip in buttermilk then into salted flour/cornmeal mixture (some people prefer 50/50, but I prefer 75 flour, 25 yellow cornmeal).  Pop into very hot (350 degrees, just below smoking) peanut oil or whatever, they will surface and brown.  Remove when brown enough to suit your fancy.  Serve immediately. I have been using this recipe (I believe it was in Outdoor Life way back in the early seventies) to get kids used to eating fish.  It works on adults too.  Develops a fine appreciation for flavor, since the marination gets rid of the lactic acid which builds up in the tissue when a fish fights…and also imparts a flavor of its own.  A caveat: the first pieces turn out “hard” due to the seasoning of the hot oil…so cook just one or two pieces at first. Injun Jim Jim Pankey USN (Ret.) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Are these fish good to eat?  I keep seeing all these fishing shows about catching bass, but never any recipes ar anything.  Are they edible?

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Oh, let me count the ways Pan fried in corn meal Baked with white wine sauce Poached (for breakfast) Yes, bass is great eating. BTW, Walleye is my favorite fish to eat but bass is a close second! Ed – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Are these fish good to eat?  I keep seeing all these fishing shows about catching bass, but never any recipes ar anything.  Are they edible?

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Are these fish good to eat?  I keep seeing all these fishing shows about catching bass, but never any recipes ar anything.  Are they edible? I think that Bass are a bit too fishy tasting, and  (snip) Now, maybe it’s just me but, ain’t that what fish is supposed to taste like…fish? Never had one that “Tastes just like chicken.” The only time I don’t like the smell is when I buy the stuff usually found in stores.

There are a lot of fish (both fresh water and ocean fish) that have a stronger fish taste than others. Ever try Carp? Nasty stuff, IMO. Some fish, like Walleye and Catfish have a very light and flaky flesh (when cooked right) that isn’t overly fishy at all, IMO. But, some people like a strong tasting fish…I’m just not one of them. – * Scott Smith – Designer / Developer / Consultant * * Graphics Software – http://graphicssoft.miningco.com * GRAPHIX! News – http://www.wwwebworld.com/graphix.html * WWWeb World Consulting – http://www.wwwebworld.com -

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(Headers trimmed to exclude the NG Alt.bass..which is a ng about bass Guitars) Bass are extra edible!!! Forget the fancy recipes. Catch your fish, clean them, Wrap them in foil with a pat of butter and a dash of Mary Jane’s Crazy Mixed Up Salt. Grill them over charcoal and EAT, EAT, EAT with fresh squeezed lemon.

On the run? Gotta Go?  Catch yer bass, and after the cleaning/fileting ritual, season if(like above)/or the way you like’em, wrap in plenty of foil and place between the cylinders of yer V-Twin (Inline fours,or BMW’s will not work to well) and ride about 40/50 miles. Unrap and chowdown.  (your mileage and cooking time may vary)

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(headers trimmed to eliminate the alt.bass ng,as that is about the bass guitar) Are these fish good to eat?  I keep seeing all these fishing shows about catching bass, but never any recipes ar anything.  Are they edible? I think that Bass are a bit too fishy tasting, and  (snip)

Now, maybe it’s just me but, ain’t that what fish is supposed to taste like…fish? Never had one that “Tastes just like chicken.”  The only time I don’t like the smell is when I buy the stuff usually found in stores.

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Bass are extra edible!!! Forget the fancy recipes. Catch your fish, clean them, Wrap them in foil with a pat of butter and a dash of Mary Jane’s Crazy Mixed Up Salt. Grill them over charcoal and EAT, EAT, EAT with fresh squeezed lemon. YUM, YUM, YUM!!!!!!! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Are these fish good to eat?  I keep seeing all these fishing shows about catching bass, but never any recipes ar anything.  Are they edible?

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Are these fish good to eat?  I keep seeing all these fishing shows about catching bass, but never any recipes ar anything.  Are they edible? In this part of the country, smaller largemouth bass – 15″, 16″ – are very good to eat.  Bread and pan fry, wrap in foil and grill with vegetables, whatever.  They are fine. Larger fish – two to three pounds and up – tend to have a strong fishy taste. Jim Adams Toledo Ohio

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Are these fish good to eat?  I keep seeing all these fishing shows about catching bass, but never any recipes ar anything.  Are they edible?

Sure. But like some fish (bullheads, Pike, etc.) they are a bit of an aquired taste, IMO. I think that Bass are a bit too fishy tasting, and unless the fish is big enough to easily filet, they are too bony (like Pike). I still prefer Walleye, panfish and catfish (if the water is still cold enough and the flesh is firm) for eating. – * Scott Smith – Designer / Developer / Consultant * * Graphics Software – http://graphicssoft.miningco.com * GRAPHIX! News – http://www.wwwebworld.com/graphix.html * WWWeb World Consulting – http://www.wwwebworld.com -

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Question:

Ok guys….. I was watching tv,largemouth bass recepies a fishing show. The show may have been “Honey Hole” They said they observed hooked fish. They said that hooks come out of the fish. I think the fish were not gut hooked, I think… The fish formed some sort of callus in the hooked area. The “callus” thing then broke off the fish with the hook, and thus the fish became void of the hook. They said this all happened long before the hooks could rust out. Cheers. largemouth bass recepies I was wondering if anyone knows what the chances for survival are with a bass who has swallowed a lure and you cut them off in order to get them back in the water.largemouth bass recepies I fish plastic worms often and have a tendency to let them swallow the lure before setting it. I’ve heard that they produce acids which will eat away the hooks. Any info is appreciated.

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He said that largemouths will dissolve a hook(but not the line), but he never said anything about crappie. Jim Hohmann http://www.geocities.com/Yosemite/Geyser/7414/index.html   My son gut hooked a  big crappie the other day. I cut the line and put it in the livewell. 30 minutes later , the fish was dead. If anyone can show me research that proves a fish’s stomach acid can disolve a steel fish hook, I’ll lay my head on a block of wood and let them chop it off. Mark, Quality Tackle, Competitive Prices <a href=”http://members.aol.com/mmccoy01/index.html”McCoy’s</a

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Great thread, I learned something new!! JT

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I’m glad to hear that the dissolving hook isn’t just an old wives tale. This would definitely make for a great science experiment for someone out there. I’d definitely enjoy more info on the subject. Thanks for the responses.

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I have nothing but a gut feeling that a fish would die with a stainless steel hook…and probably die with any other hook.largemouth bass recepies  Fishing barbless makes removal of those deep hooks easier and would probably give the fish a fighting chance, imho. Jim Pankey USN (Ret.) “Barbless Bassin’”   I was wondering if anyone knows what the chances for survival are with a   bass who has swallowed a lure and you cut them off in order to get them back   in the water. I fish plastic worms often and have a tendency to let them   swallow the lure before setting it. I’ve heard that they produce acids which   will eat away the hooks. Any info is appreciated.   JB

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I was wondering if anyone knows what the chances for survival are with a bass who has swallowed a lure and you cut them off in order to get them back in the water. I fish plastic worms often and have a tendency to let them swallow the lure before setting it. I’ve heard that they produce acids which will eat away the hooks. Any info is appreciated.

John, I have caught a trout with a barbless hook passed through the fish and left dangling by the mono. It probably had one more day before it passed the rest. Apparently the angler gut hooked him and cut the line. The fish was spunky enough to put on one hell of a fight. If we use barbless hooks, we have a better chance of unhooking the fish. If we must cut the line, it will have an easier time passing it. All the lures and fly’s I carry have the barbs bent down. Some fish slip off but I find it easier to set the hook. It’s a fair trade off. BassBug: Is it a sport or a religion?

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If anyone can show me research that proves a fish’s stomach acid can disolve a steel fish hook, I’ll lay my head on a block of wood and let them chop it off.

WIll you let me use your head for a chumming block?  Seriously though, Mark, I think you are right about the acid.  How about instead of decapitating you, we just ask one of these people to swallow a hook themselves and see what happens?  Great idea for your kid’s science project: how long will it take for different types/size of hooks to dissolve in an acid solution similar to that of a fish stomach. Mu

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Md. did a study on Rockfish that were gut hooked and released with the hook. It was a controlled study.All the fish were well taken care of after release. After 6 months all the fish were healthy. Shorty after that the fish started to die. Within 12 months all the fish were dead. The fish died from toxic shock.  This was a small article in the local paper.

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Crappie are not as hardy as the largemouth bass and do not tolerate a gut hook as well. However, releasing the fish back into the water instead of your livewell will result in a better survival rate. A number of factors may be involved in livewell deaths – water temp, oxygen, alge or fungus to name a few.Regardless of how carefull you are a few of the fish will die anyway. All I am saying is try to release the fish with as little stress as possible and let nature take it’s course. If it is evident that the fish will not survive, take the fish home to eat or donate it to a worthy cause. I do not wish to see you headless, but studies on Okeechobee show that the hook is either expelled or swallowed and disolved in a matter of days. I have dissected and searched the stomich contents myself and have found several bass with plastic lures in the intestional tract, yet never a hook. This only confirms the studies that the hook is expelled or digested. Good luck to you and your son and if you are ever coming this way, give me a holler. Good Fishing – Moe Moe’s Guide Service –  http://members.aol.com/moefran/index.html

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I was wondering if anyone knows what the chances for survival are

with a bass who has swallowed a lure and you cut them off in order to get them back in the water. << How long would you live if you tried to pass a treble hook? —              _            _         _  _ __  __ _ (_)___ _ _ __| |_  _ __| |___     | ‘  / _` || / _ ‘_/ _` | || / _` / -_)  Using OUI 1.9 Pro           |__/

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My son gut hooked a  big crappie the other day. I cut the line and put it in the livewell. 30 minutes later , the fish was dead. If anyone can show me research that proves a fish’s stomach acid can disolve a steel fish hook, I’ll lay my head on a block of wood and let them chop it off. Mark, Quality Tackle, Competitive Prices <a href=”http://members.aol.com/mmccoy01/index.html”McCoy’s</a

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Glad to know that! — Go fishing. And may your fish be as big as your tales!

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – No question that cutting the hook improves the survival rate of the fish. Most largemouths will expell the hook in 2 to 3 days or finish swallowing it and acids in the digestive system will disolve the hook. Try not to pull anymore than necessary on the hook and cut the line as close as possible to the eye – the line will not disolve. As a guide on Okeechobee we have caught hundreds of fish that have had hooks in them ( some with the worm still attached ) so the hook will not stop the fish from feeding and his chance of survival is greatly improved.Keep up the good work. Good Fishing – Moe Moe’s Guide Service –  http://members.aol.com/moefran/index.html

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No question that cutting the hook improves the survival rate of the fish. Most largemouths will expell the hook in 2 to 3 days or finish swallowing it and acids in the digestive system will disolve the hook. Try not to pull anymore than necessary on the hook and cut the line as close as possible to the eye – the line will not disolve. As a guide on Okeechobee we have caught hundreds of fish that have had hooks in them ( some with the worm still attached ) so the hook will not stop the fish from feeding and his chance of survival is greatly improved.Keep up the good work.   Good Fishing – Moe Moe’s Guide Service –  http://members.aol.com/moefran/index.html

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Definately good JB- when I “gut hook” a bass with a worm rig or small jig I don’t even try to remove the hook.  20-50 cents is a small sacrifice to save the life of a black beauty, and even attempting to remove the hook is a certain trip to death row for the fish. Warren – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I was wondering if anyone knows what the chances for survival are with a bass who has swallowed a lure and you cut them off in order to get them back in the water. I fish plastic worms often and have a tendency to let them swallow the lure before setting it. I’ve heard that they produce acids which will eat away the hooks. Any info is appreciated. JB

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John, i cut the line n let the fish go also because i have heard the same thing…im not sure it’s true..i have caught healthy fish with hooks that were cut off in them…do they actually have some acidic liquid that actually disolves hooks quickly… im not sure ..sounds like a wives tale ..but i would be grateful to know more for sure.     Josh – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I was wondering if anyone knows what the chances for survival are with a bass who has swallowed a lure and you cut them off in order to get them back in the water. I fish plastic worms often and have a tendency to let them swallow the lure before setting it. I’ve heard that they produce acids which will eat away the hooks. Any info is appreciated. JB

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I was wondering if anyone knows what the chances for survival are with a bass who has swallowed a lure and you cut them off in order to get them back in the water. I fish plastic worms often and have a tendency to let them swallow the lure before setting it. I’ve heard that they produce acids which will eat away the hooks. Any info is appreciated. JB

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Question:

That’s what she wanted in the first place,largemouth bass recepies largemouth bass tank but she *didn’t* want a chain saw for Christmas.  In other words, buy them something that *you*largemouth bass recepies would find useless, not *them*.largemouth bass tank  If you buy them something that you would want, it’s almost certain to piss them off.

You’re really making thia all very difficult.largemouth bass tank largemouth bass recepies  I think I’ll keep looking for a SBG who gets off on a new rod.  I’m not sure that came out quite right

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You’re really making thia all very difficult.

It’s not *me* that’s making it difficult, it’s *them*.largemouth bass tank  I’m just telling you about it.  Like a co-worker said the other day, if he’d known 30 years ago what he now knows about women (after 2 divorces), he’d have *never* gotten married in the first place. I think I’ll keep looking for a SBG who gets off on a new rod.

Especially if its *your* rod.largemouth bass tank  d8-] I’m not sure that came out quite right

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Eric, Except that you’ll end up angling for 1-eyed-trowser-trout at home largemouth bass recepies Not 2 make ya envious but my wife’s a fisheries mgr,largemouth bass tank fishes the club with me and get’s *pissed* when/if I outfish her.

Sounds lik eyou might be the SBG

Response:

So, what are you saying here?  Are you saying I didn’t learn what I thought I learned.

Judging by this reply,largemouth bass tank I think you’ve missed the spirit of my suggestion. Hey,largemouth bass recepies one year my ex-fishing partner wanted a tree chopped down in the back yard, so I bought her a small chain saw for Christmas.

Man, I sure am glad I wasn’t there when she opened it.  d8-] She thought it was so useless, she threw it at me and told me what to do with it.  I didn’t do what she suggested, but I did chopped down that tree and one out front and then two other ones for the neighbors.

I’m glad you stopped before you completely denuded the neighborhood.  The utility companies can get a bit testy when you start using your chain saw on their poles.  d8-] I thought it all worked out pretty damn good.  She got rid of the tree she didn’t like and didn’t have to do any of the work

That’s what she wanted in the first place, but she *didn’t* want a chain saw for Christmas.  In other words, buy them something that *you* would find useless, not *them*.  If you buy them something that you would want, it’s almost certain to piss them off.  d8-] Richard C.

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Except that you’ll end up angling for 1-eyed-trowser-trout at home;) Not 2 make ya envious but my wife’s a fisheries mgr, fishes the club with me and get’s *pissed* when/if I outfish her.  Muahhahah. Richard, Read it.  Remember it.  Use it.  Women are *very* big on making sure that the blame falls on someone else.  If they get the slightest hint that you might be blaming them for *anything*, they go ballistic.  Or, to put it another way, if you screw up, they get mad at you.  But, if *they* screw up, and you point it out, they get *very* mad at you.  d8-] Well now, I’ve been coming to the conclusion that fishing alone ain’t all that bad Richard

–  __  __/   __  /_/ /__  ,<    _  /___   _  _, _/ _  /| |    /_____/   /_/ |_|  /_/ |_|

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Richard, Read it.  Remember it.  Use it.  Women are *very* big on making sure that the blame falls on someone else.  If they get the slightest hint that you might be blaming them for *anything*, they go ballistic.  Or, to put it another way, if you screw up, they get mad at you.  But, if *they* screw up, and you point it out, they get *very* mad at you.  d8-] Well now, I’ve been coming to the conclusion that fishing alone ain’t all that bad

It is *vastly* superior to fishing with the wrong partner, like that woman who ragged on you for tying up the dock.  She would also probably rag on you for tangling your rods up with hers, or hogging all the peanut butter sandwiches, or something like that.  d8-] Of course, you don’t actually have to find a fishing partner.  You could find a nice boat decoration that likes to just lay on the back deck in her bikini, and maybe read a book, while you do the fishing.  When you catch a big ugly sucker, you could hold it up for her approval.  She could smile and ask if you want her to open the live well, or hand you a peanut butter sandwich, or a bottle of fancy water, or something like that.  d8-] Richard C.

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Richard, Sorry, but you may not be quite the ladys’ man that I thought you were.  As useless as an Angels ticket may be, the fact that she didn’t go with you should tell you something.  She would probably have preferred tickets to a play, opera, or ballet.  Although, an Angels game *does* share some similarities with a Greek tragedy.  d8-]

So, what are you saying here?  Are you saying I didn’t learn what I thought I learned.  Hey, one year my ex-fishing partner wanted a tree chopped down in the back yard, so I bought her a small chain saw for Christmas.  She thought it was so useless, she threw it at me and told me what to do with it.  I didn’t do what she suggested, but I did chopped down that tree and one out front and then two other ones for the neighbors.  I thought it all worked out pretty damn good.  She got rid of the tree she didn’t like and didn’t have to do any of the work Richard

Response:

Richard, Read it.  Remember it.  Use it.  Women are *very* big on making sure that the blame falls on someone else.  If they get the slightest hint that you might be blaming them for *anything*, they go ballistic.  Or, to put it another way, if you screw up, they get mad at you.  But, if *they* screw up, and you point it out, they get *very* mad at you.  d8-]

Well now, I’ve been coming to the conclusion that fishing alone ain’t all that bad Richard

Response:

Richard, Hey!  Let’s get this straight, here.  The “Useless Gifts Rule” is *my* suggestion, not Carl’s.  But thanks for the suggestion of tickets to a play.  Tickets to the ballet or opera can also make you a lot of points. Of the two, I like ballet better.  You don’t have to listen to all that Italian singing.  d8-] I just thought of something.  I got my ex-fishing partner tickets to an Angel’s game once.  She got so excited she let me keep both of them so I could take a drinking buddy.  I never thought of them as a useless present, but the Angels can’t play ball, so they probably were in the useless present category and that why she got so excited.  Damn, we’re on to something here

Sorry, but you may not be quite the ladys’ man that I thought you were.  As useless as an Angels ticket may be, the fact that she didn’t go with you should tell you something.  She would probably have preferred tickets to a play, opera, or ballet.  Although, an Angels game *does* share some similarities with a Greek tragedy.  d8-] Richard C.

Response:

Richard, Hey!  Let’s get this straight, here.  The “Useless Gifts Rule” is *my* suggestion, not Carl’s.  But thanks for the suggestion of tickets to a play.  Tickets to the ballet or opera can also make you a lot of points. Of the two, I like ballet better.  You don’t have to listen to all that Italian singing.  d8-]

I just thought of something.  I got my ex-fishing partner tickets to an Angel’s game once.  She got so excited she let me keep both of them so I could take a drinking buddy.  I never thought of them as a useless present, but the Angels can’t play ball, so they probably were in the useless present category and that why she got so excited.  Damn, we’re on to something here Richard

Response:

In Article Re: Fishing alone – Part Two , Bill McKee In Article Re: Fishing alone – Part Two , Bill McKee I am Calif born and married 30 yrs.   So it’s not just Okla. or the Eastern Suburbs. If you’re California born, you probably have some Okie blood in you.   d8-] Western Nebraska, Iowa

Oh well, back during the dust bowl, they called ‘em *all* Okies.  d8-] Talk about bad fishing, I went out and never left the dock.  Cylinder head off boat and being repaired now. Bummer. Put head back on last night, will see how it runs tonight, 10:30 pm was a little late to fire up the motor. BOAT Break Out Another Thousand, actually only $275.  Need to take it out for a shake down run, Saturday. Be ready for the Salmon season to open up at Halfmoon Bay.  Closer than Santa Cruz, and I can put out my crab traps.  Will take a bass trip to the SF delta as a shakedown (see got R.O.F.B into the thread)

Are we talking largemouth bass here? Hey!  Let’s get this straight, here.  The “Useless Gifts Rule” is *my* suggestion, not Carl’s.  But thanks for the suggestion of tickets to a play.  Tickets to the ballet or opera can also make you a lot of points.  Of the two, I like ballet better.  You don’t have to listen to all that Italian singing.  d8-] Richard C. I apologize, was too lazy to go back through the thread, to see who suggested it.  Remember, opera is the only place, you rellay look for the fat lady. d;-)

Sounds good to me.  d8-] Richard C.

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – If you’re California born, you probably have some Okie blood in you. d8-] Western Nebraska, Iowa Oh well, back during the dust bowl, they called ‘em *all* Okies.  d8-], actually they came out in ‘41 after the dust bowl, but my mother says she would never go back to that sh*t they call snow. Put head back on last night, will see how it runs tonight, 10:30 pm was a little late to fire up the motor. BOAT Break Out Another Thousand, actually only $275.  Need to take it out for a shake down run, Saturday. Be ready for the Salmon season to open up at Halfmoon Bay.  Closer than Santa Cruz, and I can put out my crab traps.  Will take a bass trip to the SF delta as a shakedown (see got R.O.F.B into the thread) Are we talking largemouth bass here?

yup! or a striper if it will hit the crank bait. or even a catfish if it hits the crank bait. Repot from the Sacramento Bee: Sacramento River, delta: Two-day team tournament in delta over the weekend produced winning weight of         43 pounds for 14 fish, with largest fish weighing about 9 pounds. Winner was flipping jigs or plastic worms,         but spinnerbaits and crankbaits also are working. Bass are in pre-spawn mode so angler should concentrate on         areas where water will be warmer and slower. In the port, stripers to 8 pounds hit sardines, butterflied shad or         pile worms. Boaters also troll broken-back Rebels with a Rainbow Runner jig on a spreader or retrieve         Rat-L-Traps. Richard C.

Regards, Bill — Opinions expressed are mine not necessarily my employers. All other standard disclaimers apply! Remove nospam. To email reply.

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In Article Re: Fishing alone – Part Two , Bill McKee I am Calif born and married 30 yrs.   So it’s not just Okla. or the Eastern Suburbs. If you’re California born, you probably have some Okie blood in you.  d8-]

Western Nebraska, Iowa Talk about bad fishing, I went out and never left the dock.  Cylinder head off boat and being repaired now. Bummer.

Put head back on last night, will see how it runs tonight, 10:30 pm was a little late to fire up the motor. BOAT Break Out Another Thousand, actually only $275.Need to take it out for a shake down run, Saturday.  Be ready for the Salmon season to open up at Halfmoon Bay.  Closer than Santa Cruz, and I can put out my crab traps.  Will take a bass trip to the SF delta as a shakedown (see got R.O.F.B into the tread) Hey!  Let’s get this straight, here.  The “Useless Gifts Rule” is *my* suggestion, not Carl’s.  But thanks for the suggestion of tickets to a play.  Tickets to the ballet or opera can also make you a lot of points. Of the two, I like ballet better.  You don’t have to listen to all that Italian singing.  d8-] Richard C.

I apologize, was too lazy to go back through the thread, to see who suggested it.  Remember, opera is the only place, you rellay look for the fat lady d;-) Regards, Bill — Opinions expressed are mine not necessarily my employers. All other standard disclaimers apply! Remove nospam. To email reply.

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Carl, As an Honorary Okie, I must stand up and point out that it was Richard C., the other Richard, that made the useless suggestion about excellent gifts (or was that the excellent suggestion about useless gifts?) I never get it straight.

Then is was Richard C who screwed up this thread Richard

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In Article Re: Fishing alone – Part Two , Bill McKee I am Calif born and married 30 yrs.   So it’s not just Okla. or the Eastern Suburbs.

If you’re California born, you probably have some Okie blood in you.  d8-] Talk about bad fishing, I went out and never left the dock.  Cylinder head off boat and being repaired now.

Bummer. Maybe Rogue just needs to realize he does not need a SBG just a SG. Rogue, just because you sleep with them doesn’t mean you have to fish with them.  My wife likes the boating not catching of fish.

Sounds like a plan to me. Besides Carl’s right –  need to get them useless presents, tickets to plays you don’t really want to see are very good.

Hey!  Let’s get this straight, here.  The “Useless Gifts Rule” is *my* suggestion, not Carl’s.  But thanks for the suggestion of tickets to a play.  Tickets to the ballet or opera can also make you a lot of points. Of the two, I like ballet better.  You don’t have to listen to all that Italian singing.  d8-] Richard C.

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Carl, As an Honorary Okie, I must stand up and point out that it was Richard C., the other Richard, that made the useless suggestion about excellent gifts (or was that the excellent suggestion about useless gifts?) I never get it straight.

ROTFLMAO! Then is was Richard C who screwed up this thread

Yeah, go ahead.  Blame me for it.  After 30 years of miser .. er .. marriage, I’m used to accepting the blame for everything.  In fact, I’ll give you another one of “Richard’s Rules”.  One of the most important sentences you can use when dealing with your spouse are:         I’m sorry, honey, It’s all my fault. Read it.  Remember it.  Use it.  Women are *very* big on making sure that the blame falls on someone else.  If they get the slightest hint that you might be blaming them for *anything*, they go ballistic.  Or, to put it another way, if you screw up, they get mad at you.  But, if *they* screw up, and you point it out, they get *very* mad at you.  d8-] Richard C.

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Richard, Having 3 ex-wives I feel I can relate to this thread. I suppose there’s a little bassin’ expert image in a lot of people around here Richard

That wasn’t me who said that.  I don’t have *any* ex-wives.  I learn from my mistakes.  I only got married once, and if I ever get divorced, I’ll only do that once also. After all, marriage is a wonderful institution, but 30 years in an institution should be enough for anyone.  d8-] Richard

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Richard, That wasn’t me who said that.  I don’t have *any* ex-wives.  I learn from my mistakes.  I only got married once, and if I ever get divorced, I’ll only do that once also.

Okay, who’s screwed up this thread?  And if you think I did it, then it’s time to drop the subject and move onto something else.  Now, if you are like me and think Carl did it, then I help you straighten him out After all, marriage is a wonderful institution, but 30 years in an institution should be enough for anyone.  d8-]

What can I say, I’ll take you word for it Richard

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Richard, Okay, who’s screwed up this thread?  And if you think I did it, then it’s time to drop the subject and move onto something else.  Now, if you are like me and think Carl did it, then I help you straighten him out I deny everything, and demand proof. Besides, I’ve only been married once, just like Richard Caldwell. Maybe something about Oklahoma and it’s many suburbs. — Carl Gustafson Honorary Okie

I am Calif born and married 30 yrs.   So it’s not just Okla. or the Eastern Suburbs.  Talk about bad fishing, I went out and never left the dock.  Cylinder head off boat and being repaired now.  Maybe Rogue just needs to realize he does not need a SBG just a SG.  Rogue, just because you sleep with them doesn’t mean you have to fish with them.  My wife likes the boating not catching of fish.  Besides Carl’s right –  need to get them useless presents, tickets to plays you don’t really want to see are very good. Regards, Bill — Opinions expressed are mine not necessarily my employers. All other standard disclaimers apply! Remove nospam. To email reply.

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Bill, Maybe Rogue just needs to realize he does not need a SBG just a SG.  Rogue, just because you sleep with them doesn’t mean you have to fish with them.

Now hold on here.  I’ve got an image to protect.  Just because one SBG dumped me … come to think of it, that’s what the problem was all along.  SHe wan’t a SBG, she was only a SG.  Damn, I’m on to something here, now all I have to do is figure it out Besides Carl’s right –  need to get them useless presents, tickets to plays you don’t really want to see are very good.

Well, I’m not at the point where I’m willing to give up my principles yet.  I figure I’ve got another good month left in me before I’m willing to start throwing them aside.  Okay, I can go another week or two Richard

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Richard, Having 3 ex-wives I feel I can relate to this thread.

I suppose there’s a little bassin’ expert image in a lot of people around here Richard

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<sniped for brevity : I made myself a rum and coke, threw another log in the fireplace and dimmed the : lights.  I picked up my new Calcutta and the rod I had gotten my ex-fishing : partner for Christmas.  Using logic again, I came to conclusion the new rod was : also mine.   I sat on the floor in front of the fireplace and attached my new : Calcutta to my new rod.  It felt good, it had a good balance.  As I shook the : rod and reel at the fireplace, the radio called from the other room.  It was : Elvis singing, “I’ll have a blue Christmas without you.”  With the radio : bringing reality back into my Christmas, I suddenly felt somewhat deflated and : all alone.  I wondered if there was a Santa Claus, I wondered why he didn’t : bring me a new fishing partner.  Damn, the image, my bassin’ expert image needs : a sexy bassin’ gal to make it complete. Having 3 ex-wives I feel I can relate to this thread. The main point is now I have all my free time for fishing. I no longer have to make excuses, make my bed, or pick up lures left on the kitchen table. In fact I am presently getting ready for a tournament on Sam Rayburn and the living room is FULL of fishing tackle. Been that way for a few weeks in fact. Kitchen is full of tackle too. Haven’t seen the surface of the kitchen table since fall. Looks more like a locker from my boat. Also have about 15 rods and reels in the living room just in case I need to try one out. Have been practicing my flipping all winter. Course the walls are going to need painting again. My schedule for the summer is pretty full of tournaments and prefishing. No time for dinners or movies and that sort of thing. My budgeting is strickly fish orientated. You would be surprised at how much you can spend on fishing without a significant other to dip into the finances. So as you can see I have adapted quite well. Fishing full time now with no distractions. Good fishing, www.msen.com/~lafay      | (810) 456-3894 (work) 2887 Pontiac Ct.         | (810) 373-6865 (home) Auburn Hills, Michigan   | Single and not taking applications. 48326                    | Interviews maybe. Ranger Boats, Lowrance Electronics, Berkley Trilene, Rippler lures, and Bill Norman Lures. I use them because I think they’re the best!

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thank ya!

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Fishing Alone Part Two – Christmas Day By Sir Rogue (Fishing Alone – Part One ended with the following paragraph – SR) As I stood in the dark, a cold breeze blew in the open front door and I suddenly felt somewhat deflated and all alone.  I wondered if there was a Santa Claus, I wondered if he would bring me a new fishing partner.  Damn, the image, my bassin’ expert image needs a sexy bassin’ gal to make it complete. Christmas morning started out with my puppy dog barking at the cat next door. For some reason, that cat really irritated my puppy dog; for some reason, my puppy dog barking at that cat next door really irritated me.  I guess indirectly, my problem was with the cat next door and not with my puppy dog. As I pondered getting out of bed to bring a little quiet to the neighborhood, I had a thought about attaching some treble hooks to that cat and inventing a new lure – the Rattle Cat.  Damn, that sounded like a good idea.  But then again, casting that cat all day could get a little tiring.  A better idea would be to get a litter of little kitties and then go after the ugly suckers.  Damn, that’s right, no live bait when chasing ugly suckers.  I suppose I could kill the little kitties and have them stuffed or something like that.  No, I couldn’t see killing them.  Well, if they were going to grow up to be like that cat next door, I could.  I swung my legs over the edge of the bed, paused for a minute to ensure the barking really required outside intervention, then stood up.  I wandered into the bathroom, made that male hose sound, brushed my teeth and thought about taking a nice hot shower.  I decided against the shower, and instead settled for my “Old Fishermen Never Die – They only Smell That Way” tee-shirt.  I figured I could at least warn my fishing partner that … I turned back and looked at the bed – damn, I didn’t have a fishing partner anymore. I made my way downstairs, barked out the back door at my puppy dog, then turned my attention to the coffee maker.  I finished cleaning up the mess from the night before and located the errant coffee pot in the dishwasher.  It was still dirty, but not dirty enough to effect a compulsion to wash it.  After double checking everything, I clicked the switch, it glowed amber – hopefully, the coffee was brewing. While the coffee maker did its burping and gargling thing, I decided I would fix me a hearty Christmas breakfast.  I poked around in the cupboards and the refrigerator for a little while, but didn’t find anything that looked like a finished breakfast product.  I concluded breakfast was probably one of those meals associated with raw ingredients.  Finally, I settled for a couple of breakfast bars made from health food stuff.   After my hearty Christmas breakfast, I grabbed a cup of coffee and made my way to the garage to have a cigarette with my puppy dog.  When I opened the door, my puppy dog eagerly greeted me by jumping up and down and beating everything in sight with his hyper-active tail.  ”Will you settle down,” I snapped.  I fired up a cigarette and pulled the cover back from the non-descript Bassin’ Dreadnought.  Instinctively, as if driven by a deeply embedded natural drive, I started thinking about where to go chase ugly suckers.  As soon as I had concluded Lake Perris would be the best bet, I was suddenly overcome by a deep depressing feeling – all the lakes were closed because it was Christmas.  I plopped down in my chair and fired up another cigarette.  I tried to figure out a way to sneak the beast into one of the lakes.  After three cigarettes, I finally resigned myself to the truth of the situation – Christmas wasn’t for little boys with bass boats. With my first cup of coffee under my belt, I decided I needed another one.  I got up from my chair and headed toward the door to the house.  As I grabbed the door knob, I had a thought, I had a good thought, I had a great thought.  I squeezed between the bow of the beast and the garage door and made my way to the far side of the Bassin’ Dreadnought.  With my fingers crossed, I opened the rod locker.  I moved a couple of rods and there it was – my fishing partner’s Calcutta.  I pulled the rod and reel from the rod locker.  I tried to think of a valid rule or law that would justify me claiming my ex-fishing partner’s prize reel and rod.  I couldn’t come up with one, so I made my way into the house for that second cup of coffee. As I poured the coffee, I decided that squatter’s rights might apply to my goal to lay claim to my ex-fishing partner’s rod and reel.  I decided I would look it up on the Internet and find out what it meant.  It looked promising.  As the sugar slipped from the spoon and disappeared into the coffee colored coffee, the telephone rang.   “Yo.” “Merry Christmas.” “Ya, Merry Christmas to you.” “Well, did you miss me last night?” “Ya, I missed you.” “Have you learn anything about Christmas presents and women?” “Ya.” “Well, what did you learn?” “Well, I guess I should have gotten you a Castaic since I got me one.” “You’re hopeless.” “You wanted two rods two?” “Good bye, Rogue.” “Wait, wait, wait.” “What, Rogue?” “Ah, can I ask you something?” “Yes, Rogue.  What?” “Since you left your fishing stuff, does that mean I can have your Calcutta?” Clink. “Hello?  Hello?  Hello?” I hung up the phone, I felt rejected and depressed.  I grabbed my coffee and went into the living room.  I picked up one of the new rods and sat down on the couch.  The rod was a 6′ 6″ medium heavy, my ex-fishing partner’s Christmas present.  Damn, I wished I had thought a little bit before answering her question.  All I had to do was say something about buying her a feminine Christmas present, something like … something like … well something like a feminine Christmas present.   I whipped the rod in the air a few times to test it’s action, then my arm went into slow motion.  The rod stopped at a 45 degree angle, pointing towards the corner of the ceiling.  My lips twisted to form a big grin, I had a thought, I had a good thought, I had a great thought.  My e-fishing partner didn’t say no, the opposite of no is yes; therefore, I can have her Calcutta.  Damn, I love logic.  Back to the garage I went to retrieve my latest Christmas present. After retrieving my new Calcutta, I went out to the car and grabbed the bag of stocking stuffers I had forgotten about the night before.  Once back inside the house, I dropped the bag on the floor and decide it was time to make the best of it.  I checked the lights on the Christmas tree and discovered it was the contraption that flashes the lights in interesting sequences that blew the circuit breaker the night before.  I settled for one strand of non-flashing miniature lights.  I decided for decorations two balls and the embroidered angel for the top of the tree were good enough.  I picked up the rest of the lights and Christmas decorations and tossed them into the closet under the stairs.  With the tree decorated, I tried the fireplace again and discovered I could indeed get it working properly.  I pulled the smelly plastic worms and various lures from the plastic bag and stuffed them into the red and white Christmas stockings.  After the stockings, I put the packages from Bass Pro Shops under the tree. I was feeling pretty good about my Christmas celebration until I noticed a bunch of wrapped Christmas presents in some shopping bags in the corner.  I picked up a couple of the presnts and read the tags.  With my newfound single lifestyle, I had forgotten that Christmas often involves the comings and goings of family and friends.  I thought about it for a minute or two and came to the conclusion I was more than likely suppose to be off visiting people.  Why else would the presents be in shopping bags.  Well, I wasn’t in the mood to go visiting, I wasn’t in the mood to explain  to everyone that my ex-fishing partner had taken off with another man, another man with a bigger … a bigger boat. With the visitation issue resolved, I decided I needed to prepare Christmas dinner, a Christmas feast.  I opened up the freezer section of the refrigerator and discovered a great big turkey.  I pulled the ugly sucker out and quickly read the directions on the wrapping.  Well, I didn’t have time to thaw it three days in the refrigerator, and I didn’t have time to thaw it overnight in a sink of water.  A thought popped into my head, I went over and examined the writings on the microwave open.  Just like I thought, it had a defrost setting on it. That was probably the same thing as thaw, I concluded.  I tried to stick the frozen turkey into the microwave, but discovered it was too big.  I needed to knock two inches off the top and three inches off one of the ends.  The turkey and I made our way out into the garage.  I looked over my collection of power tools, but couldn’t find anything that seemed appropriate.  I settled on a good old-fashion hand ax.  With a chop-chop here and a chop-chop there, the egg shaped frozen turkey soon became a box-shaped thing.  With my turkey conforming to a more practical shape, I made my way back into the kitchen.  I tried the turkey in the microwave, it was tight, but I got it in.  With a grin of pride, I slammed the microwave door shut.  It bounced back.  I tried to close it again, it wouldn’t close.  Upon closer examination, I concluded that I needed to chop off an inch of width.  I tried to get the frozen and slippery turkey from the microwave, but it was stuck tightly in place.  I thought about taking the microwave with the included turkey out into the garage to whack off the appropriate amount of turkey to solve the immediate problem, but decide it wasn’t worth it.  I put a towel over the mess and went looking for a turkey substitute.  After about twenty minutes of intense labor, I had my Christmas dinner prepared – a platter of canned sardines, saltine crackers, cheddar cheese cubes, slices of cranberry jelly and … read more »

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